Will the signing of more youngsters hinder our current ones?

[Alfonso]

Our youth is the youth version of Chelsea. That is true.

Not sure if thats a good or bad thing, i think its the later.

 

[Gooner_8ca]

True but we're not paying 300 million pounds for our players. Moreover this competition will test If they can handle the pressure or the competition. From this we can at least gain some sort of insight about their state of mind. You "buddy" mentioned that when Van persie didn't have competition he performed well. Well i can say Reyes had all the opportunity to make his name at arsenal but he's a flop because his heads not in the game.

 

[Alfonso]

Your "buddy" quote]

He not my buddy, but i agree with his posts.

 

[Gooner_8ca]

HAHAHA. you're right, you're just logging off and logging in as that user name. Absolutely brilliant

 

[jester]

some people thrive with competition, some dont. to say that we should get rid of it in the youth system is pathetic, it seperates the players that will/wont make it. In any walk of life competition is about, and if we dont give them competition at an early age, and let them walk into the reserve team without earning it by being better than another, it'll be our downfall.
Our youth is the way it is because wenger believes in it. Hardly any will make it from our youth team, so wenger will sign more to up the chances of having one make it.

 

[Alfonso]

HAHAHA. you're right, you're just logging off and logging in as that user name. Absolutely brilliant

? I dont think so mate. Nice conspricay theory though.

 

[Gooner_8ca]

That's unfortunate. That really would have made things interesting.

 

[F_Henry]

He hasn't been getting 20 year olds? So Diaby, Adebayor and O' Ceaurill don't count?

How can he implement 16-17 year olds in 3-4? If our squad will have no room for any youngsters coming in? I guarantee you Ribery will be coming to Arsenal in the summer, or even January, whre are we going to put the 16-17 year old players??

----------------------New GK or Butcher-----------------------

Eboue-------Toure-------Senderos------Clichy/Traore/ or mayb buy 1

------Diaby/Denilson/Neo- Coker?? (Wenger wants him)----Cesc

Walcott/ Hleb----------------------------Merida/Rosicky/ Ribery

-------Henry(like Shearer, never be taken off)--RvP/ Bap/ Ade.

This depends on if Lehmann, Gallas, Gilberto, Lauren, Ljunberg retire or leave which they might not. Our squad will be in their prime at this point and i doubt Wenger will put in youngsters if we're making a push for trophies, like he did with Walcott last season.

And not only you, but others want even more younsters? where are we going to put Djourou, Merida, Parisio, Vela, Rui Fonte, Song, Flamini, Lupoli, Bendtner , Barazite- the list goes on

Even in 5 years time our there still won't be much space for youngsters, so why would we spend more money and time if the ones we have already are phenomenal talents?

Remember when we knew Pires was ging to leave? we thought Reyes was going to be our starting LW and Walcott his sub. then Wenger bought Rosicky(who i love) and now Walcott has to wait even longer to get a spot. All i'm saying is that, that could happen to any position and since we know it will eventually happen to just stick with the youngsters we have now and make then outstanding rather than good.

I just told you to read carefully and next thing you do is misquote me again. When did you learn to read? I said "Wenger hasn't been buying THAT MANY 20 year olds." It doesn't mean he didn't buy any but that he reduced the number that he bought. Furthermore, you're making too many assumptions. I might as well be saying that we let freddy go because of all his injuries and that henry breaks his leg because of a challenge similiar to di mateo and his career is over. *knock on wood* Assuming Henry is healthy what if his pace dies down which affects his game. There's so many things that can happen that you need a lot of players to compensate for that. Right now we have a group of players ready to back up the first team, it's time to start adding more for the future. Also in regards to the Walcott situation I don't think rosicky has hindered his growth. Walcott did not even play last year but he has looked very impressive with the few games he did have. Also the most important attribute Walcott has is that he listens. He's not some hotshot who depends a spot. He will develop into something special.

Rosicky has definetely NOT hindered Walcott's growth but how about in say 3-4 years time? Rosicky will be in his prime- how do you expect Walcott at 20-21 to compete with a world-class player in his prime?

With regards to Wenger buying fewer 20 year olds- the fact is he's still buying some. O' Ceaurill, Ade, and Diaby just took the spots of Bendtner, Lupoli, Vela, Aliaderie, Muamba, Song, Flamini, Parisio and Randall. I'm not saying buying 20 year olds is bad. It's just that now these youngsters can't get any minutes because the 20+ players have taken the spots they were fighting for. And now the youngsters are fighting for Reserves spots and they will be chosen on the basis of who is playing better at the moment rather than keepin them and giving them many chances to prove themselves.

I'm making REALISTIC assumptions because we don't know the future. I doubt Henry will slow down- he's in great physical shape at 29, he'll only be a little slower at 33 but his skill and vision will be great and can play as a second striker due to his passing ability. Wenger did want Reo-Coker and Ribery! and we just bought 2 youngsters in Denilson and van den Berg who play their positions. BTW, You forget that Reo-Coker and Ribery want to come to Arsenal. So IF they do eventually come and let's assume Denilson doesn't get minutes because Reo-Coker is prefered to him- that's 4 million pounds down the drain and also the careers that Denilson was chosen over be cause he'll be useless to us. So we just wasted our time and investments on Denilson because we bought an "outside player". AGAIN My point is that outside players will always be coming to Arsenal- too man young players aren't as much as a necessity anymore they just take minutes of the next true star.

Before i get Bombarded- I think Denilson will be a great success in the future no matter what team he plays for- hopefully Arsenal... I just used him as an example.

 

[Alfonso]

i think it may be a case of a catch 22 situation. Basically what Sabre said. But i have this feeling that Wenger is buying so many youngsters out of fun and hobbie, rather than us neccessary needing them.

 

[F_Henry]

Look at Rvp and Ade!

THey are both competeing with eachother. At some points last season I wanted them both gone because they weren't playing well- always looking over their shoulders for their place. But when RvP was injured- Ade relaxed more and started playing well. And now this season Wenger has favoured RvP lately, he's been playing well, he's more confident and not afraid of making mistakes- knowing he won't be substituted.

Imagine that with even younger players- imagine the psychological damage it does to their morale. Working hard your whole life then coming to Arsenal at 16-17 to prove yourself again and fighting with anothr 5-6 players for 1 spot. That's why i like Southampton and French Teams who focus on a few players like Walcott and Bale and probably couple more.

We should think more of Quality over Quantity- or else we'll be the youth version of Chelsea.

Spot on.

lol- Thanks for the support. About time someone posted this thread!

 

[jester]

i think it may be a case of a catch 22 situation. Basically what Sabre said. But i have this feeling that Wenger is buying so many youngsters out of fun and hobbie, rather than us neccessary needing them.

the point is no-one knows if we need them! no-one can tell if a player will make it, which means we buy more to get a higher chance of someone making it

 

[bazza_afc]

If they're good enough they will make it. Wenger has so far never let anyone go, who you would say that was a mistake or I wish we kept him, the best players with the most ability and talent will break into the team.

 

[Gooner_8ca]

He hasn't been getting 20 year olds? So Diaby, Adebayor and O' Ceaurill don't count?

How can he implement 16-17 year olds in 3-4? If our squad will have no room for any youngsters coming in? I guarantee you Ribery will be coming to Arsenal in the summer, or even January, whre are we going to put the 16-17 year old players??

----------------------New GK or Butcher-----------------------

Eboue-------Toure-------Senderos------Clichy/Traore/ or mayb buy 1

------Diaby/Denilson/Neo- Coker?? (Wenger wants him)----Cesc

Walcott/ Hleb----------------------------Merida/Rosicky/ Ribery

-------Henry(like Shearer, never be taken off)--RvP/ Bap/ Ade.

This depends on if Lehmann, Gallas, Gilberto, Lauren, Ljunberg retire or leave which they might not. Our squad will be in their prime at this point and i doubt Wenger will put in youngsters if we're making a push for trophies, like he did with Walcott last season.

And not only you, but others want even more younsters? where are we going to put Djourou, Merida, Parisio, Vela, Rui Fonte, Song, Flamini, Lupoli, Bendtner , Barazite- the list goes on

Even in 5 years time our there still won't be much space for youngsters, so why would we spend more money and time if the ones we have already are phenomenal talents?

Remember when we knew Pires was ging to leave? we thought Reyes was going to be our starting LW and Walcott his sub. then Wenger bought Rosicky(who i love) and now Walcott has to wait even longer to get a spot. All i'm saying is that, that could happen to any position and since we know it will eventually happen to just stick with the youngsters we have now and make then outstanding rather than good.

I just told you to read carefully and next thing you do is misquote me again. When did you learn to read? I said "Wenger hasn't been buying THAT MANY 20 year olds." It doesn't mean he didn't buy any but that he reduced the number that he bought. Furthermore, you're making too many assumptions. I might as well be saying that we let freddy go because of all his injuries and that henry breaks his leg because of a challenge similiar to di mateo and his career is over. *knock on wood* Assuming Henry is healthy what if his pace dies down which affects his game. There's so many things that can happen that you need a lot of players to compensate for that. Right now we have a group of players ready to back up the first team, it's time to start adding more for the future. Also in regards to the Walcott situation I don't think rosicky has hindered his growth. Walcott did not even play last year but he has looked very impressive with the few games he did have. Also the most important attribute Walcott has is that he listens. He's not some hotshot who depends a spot. He will develop into something special.

Rosicky has definetely NOT hindered Walcott's growth but how about in say 3-4 years time? Rosicky will be in his prime- how do you expect Walcott at 20-21 to compete with a world-class player in his prime?

With regards to Wenger buying fewer 20 year olds- the fact is he's still buying some. O' Ceaurill, Ade, and Diaby just took the spots of Bendtner, Lupoli, Vela, Aliaderie, Muamba, Song, Flamini, Parisio and Randall. I'm not saying buying 20 year olds is bad. It's just that now these youngsters can't get any minutes because the 20+ players have taken the spots they were fighting for. And now the youngsters are fighting for Reserves spots and they will be chosen on the basis of who is playing better at the moment rather than keepin them and giving them many chances to prove themselves.

I'm making REALISTIC assumptions because we don't know the future. I doubt Henry will slow down- he's in great physical shape at 29, he'll only be a little slower at 33 but his skill and vision will be great and can play as a second striker due to his passing ability. Wenger did want Reo-Coker and Ribery! and we just bought 2 youngsters in Denilson and van den Berg who play their positions. BTW, You forget that Reo-Coker and Ribery want to come to Arsenal. So IF they do eventually come and let's assume Denilson doesn't get minutes because Reo-Coker is prefered to him- that's 4 million pounds down the drain and also the careers that Denilson was chosen over be cause he'll be useless to us. So we just wasted our time and investments on Denilson because we bought an "outside player". AGAIN My point is that outside players will always be coming to Arsenal- too man young players aren't as much as a necessity anymore they just take minutes of the next true star.

Before i get Bombarded- I think Denilson will be a great success in the future no matter what team he plays for- hopefully Arsenal... I just used him as an example.

 

[Alfonso]

i think it may be a case of a catch 22 situation. Basically what Sabre said. But i have this feeling that Wenger is buying so many youngsters out of fun and hobbie, rather than us neccessary needing them.

the point is no-one knows if we need them! no-one can tell if a player will make it, which means we buy more to get a higher chance of someone making it

But cant you see this cancells out opportunities for other players to evolve? Hence, catch 22.

 

[Sane__]

i think it may be a case of a catch 22 situation. Basically what Sabre said. But i have this feeling that Wenger is buying so many youngsters out of fun and hobbie, rather than us neccessary needing them.

the point is no-one knows if we need them! no-one can tell if a player will make it, which means we buy more to get a higher chance of someone making it

But cant you see this cancells out opportunities for other players to evolve? Hence, catch 22.

Hence why its never going to change so move on and get over it

 

[Gooner_8ca]

[/quote]

Rosicky has definetely NOT hindered Walcott's growth but how about in say 3-4 years time? Rosicky will be in his prime- how do you expect Walcott at 20-21 to compete with a world-class player in his prime?

With regards to Wenger buying fewer 20 year olds- the fact is he's still buying some. O' Ceaurill, Ade, and Diaby just took the spots of Bendtner, Lupoli, Vela, Aliaderie, Muamba, Song, Flamini, Parisio and Randall. I'm not saying buying 20 year olds is bad. It's just that now these youngsters can't get any minutes because the 20+ players have taken the spots they were fighting for. And now the youngsters are fighting for Reserves spots and they will be chosen on the basis of who is playing better at the moment rather than keepin them and giving them many chances to prove themselves.

I'm making REALISTIC assumptions because we don't know the future. I doubt Henry will slow down- he's in great physical shape at 29, he'll only be a little slower at 33 but his skill and vision will be great and can play as a second striker due to his passing ability. Wenger did want Reo-Coker and Ribery! and we just bought 2 youngsters in Denilson and van den Berg who play their positions. BTW, You forget that Reo-Coker and Ribery want to come to Arsenal. So IF they do eventually come and let's assume Denilson doesn't get minutes because Reo-Coker is prefered to him- that's 4 million pounds down the drain and also the careers that Denilson was chosen over be cause he'll be useless to us. So we just wasted our time and investments on Denilson because we bought an "outside player". AGAIN My point is that outside players will always be coming to Arsenal- too man young players aren't as much as a necessity anymore they just take minutes of the next true star.

Before i get Bombarded- I think Denilson will be a great success in the future no matter what team he plays for- hopefully Arsenal... I just used him as an example.[/quote]

Sorry about the last post. It didn't turn out right. What I wanted to say is that you're already contradiciting yourself by saying you're making realistic assumptions. An assumption is a guess regardless of how you put it, and until i see ribery and reo-coker in arsenal jerseys your claims have no merit. Furthermore in regards to your "young players take the minutes of true stars" if these players are good the club will make room. They may send them to other clubs in order to get them the experience they need or maybe sell 50% of their rights so that they can play somewhere else but Arsenal can still have control of the player. There many things the club can do.

 

[jester]

i think it may be a case of a catch 22 situation. Basically what Sabre said. But i have this feeling that Wenger is buying so many youngsters out of fun and hobbie, rather than us neccessary needing them.

the point is no-one knows if we need them! no-one can tell if a player will make it, which means we buy more to get a higher chance of someone making it

But cant you see this cancells out opportunities for other players to evolve? Hence, catch 22.

so? because automatically once a player comes in he'll either be ahead or behind a player depending on whether he is better or worse. If Arsène signs kaka he'll be ahead of rui fonte. would anyone apart from rui fonte care if his oppurtunities are cancelled out? no. thats the entire point. the best players will play. only the worse ones wont, which is why competition is good. Not signing another youngster because he'll be in front of someone we already have is pathetic, its like saying 'theres a better player we could sign, but if we did, the worse player wont play - so we'll stick with the worse one thanks'

 

[killasback_88]

i was under the impression that fans liked signing as many good youngsters as possible. especially with the 'over the hill at 25' belief.

on a serious note, i think you answered your own question. not everyone will make it. the only way you make the youth policy a success is through a law of large numbers. because for clichy, senderos, djourou or fabregas theres a larsson, muamba, aliadiere or pennant. dont get me wrong, everyone we get has talent to a degree. but to have all the combination of factors to go with the talent, along with progressing on a year to year basis. only a few get all the boxes ticked in order to be deemed capable of playing at our level.

I completely agree with you. Competition breeds success. If we have more younger players then there will be more competition for places in the reserve team and those in the reserve team will try harder to get into the first team.

Many of you have said that we have many attacking options in our reserve team like Lupoli, Bendter, Vela etc. but be realistic. Seriously !Do you think all of these guys will cut it in the premiership. I seriously dont think so. A gem like Fabregas doesnt drop out of the sky everyday. And what Fabregas is today is becoz of hardwork,patience and Wenger.

Therefore our youngsters should try their hardest and their efforts will surely be rewarded.

Some of you also said that our bringing more & more youngsters into ou set up led to the departure Bentley and Quincy. Hell no! They got their chance and they didnt take it. And remember people we are not some lowly Championship team with limited players and quality. We are one of the Biggest clubs in Europe and you have to work your socks off to play here and take your chances when they come. PERIOD 8)

 

[Alfonso]

i think it may be a case of a catch 22 situation. Basically what Sabre said. But i have this feeling that Wenger is buying so many youngsters out of fun and hobbie, rather than us neccessary needing them.

the point is no-one knows if we need them! no-one can tell if a player will make it, which means we buy more to get a higher chance of someone making it

But cant you see this cancells out opportunities for other players to evolve? Hence, catch 22.

Hence why its never going to change so move on and get over it

charming.

 

[yankeegooner]

so? because automatically once a player comes in he'll either be ahead or behind a player depending on whether he is better or worse. If Arsène signs kaka he'll be ahead of rui fonte. would anyone apart from rui fonte care if his oppurtunities are cancelled out? no. thats the entire point. the best players will play. only the worse ones wont, which is why competition is good. Not signing another youngster because he'll be in front of someone we already have is pathetic, its like saying 'theres a better player we could sign, but if we did, the worse player wont play - so we'll stick with the worse one thanks'[/quote]

You just started a Kaka to Arsenal rumor, well done.

The Ribery, Reo-coker argument is absurd. We are linked with dozens of players, you cannot assume they're all joining. We still don't have anywhere near the cash to shell out the 30 million+ pounds it would take to bring in Reo-Coker and ribery.

Finally, I'm not sure if we're supposed to avoid talking about Cashley, but I think his ascendance from the youth ranks to left-back is a good example of what can happen. He beat out established players in front of him, Silvinho and van Bronckhorst. If Wenger tips one of these youngsters for greatness, they'll find the way to the senior team open for them. For the rest, they should consider themselves lucky to have trained and developed with Arsenal, and to be getting sold-on at a young age. Wenger/Arsenal "gave up" on Bentley, Pennant and Quincy at very young ages, young enough that they can move on and still be considered developing talents.