Will we ever win the league with Cesc leading this team?

[dos1986]

Sagna, Clichy and Ade have done fuc£ all for club or country.

Gallas is past it and parntered with another midget and dont get me started on Wan Persie

 

[dos1986]

Please, for the love of all things good, what has Cesc done wrong?

 

[duduspace]

I think the heading of this thread is similar to someone asking if Liverpool can win the league with Gerrard leading the team, my answer of course would be "YES" with a big "IF" which I will not go on to clarify but leave to your imagination.

We all know that Cesc is a class player but we also know that he is not Diego Maradona and football has always and will remain a team game.

At present, the Arsenal team confuses me because I do beleive this team is good enough to at the least match last season's performance (for me the only person we are missing is Hleb, for his dribbling, passing and ball holding ability in tight spaces which was a major influence on the way we played last season, I have seen glimpses of this in Nasri but it is early days yet)

Our problem this season has been our patchy scoring form because in one match we are excellent and in the next, we are extremely poor and look clueless (Something seems wrong with Ade and RVP but I can't place my fingers on it). The supposedly problematic DM position has not really been a problem because Denilson has so far been a capable replacement and I don't see Flamini doing anything about those 2 long range strikes we've conceded so far in open play in the league (Though I do beleive some keepers like Cech and Buffon could have tipped Leadbiter's drive over the bar).

We were at our best last season when we had Hleb, Cesc and Rosicky fit you only need to watch our matches against Reading (3-0) and Fulham (3-0) to see the offensive ability we had with those three in the midfield, we had pace and movement in Rosicky, possesion and vision in Cesc and dribbling and passing in Hleb all of course riding on the platform of defensive stability provided by Flamini's energy and in your face attitude. That midfield stability also rubbed off on our full backs and the entire team who all looked very good together because of the confidence and understanding in the engine room of the team.

It should however be noted that it took some time to get the team to that level as we had lost 3-1 at Fulham close to the end of the 2006/07 season with the only changes in our entire squad being the loss of TH14 and the arrival of Eduardo and Sagna. The difference between last season and this as I see it was that we had a very good and productive Pre-season which ended with our winning the Emirates and Amsterdam tournaments and a lot of team bonding particularly in the midfield (The formation of the Cesc, Flamini, Hleb Triumvirate).

To achieve last season's level, Walcott "must" become consistent in the absence of Rosicky; Nasri must remain fit and show more of those glimpses of Hleb's ability, Denilson must continue to grow (since he is the only one who at present has had the opportunity to impress out of those being promoted internally to replace Flamini and I beleive he can do it). Any other surprises from the likes of Diaby, Bischoff and of course Eduardo and hopefully Rosicky's return will only make us better than last season.

The greatest bonus which will definitely guarantee us at least a Double this season is if our dead ball problems become a thing of the past but that seems to be a pipe dream at present but then I can always dream or can't I?

 

[thegame24]

Um, Cesc was 4 referee decisions away from winning uas the league and cl double.

 

[Smartly Dressed Morris]

He will be gone at the end of this season and who can honestly blame him........

Fabregas "I have a dream"

Cesc Fabregas has told Spanish radio that he will assess his future at the end of the season.

The Spanish star has also admitted that a return to Barcelona would be a 'dream come true'.

Fabregas admitted he opted to stay at Emirates over the summer following his success at Euro 2008 with Spain.

The midfield schemer claims he stayed for the sole reason to try and win trophies at Arsenal, as so far during his five-year Gunners career he has picked up just one medal after lifting the FA Cup in 2005.

Now he is determined to pick up some silverware this term, but admits he will then look at his options.

"Right now I'm fine at Arsenal but I cannot deny that to return and play for Barca would be a dream come true," he told Catalan based station RAC 1.

"I chose to stay at the club last summer and right now I'm totally focused on the reason for that decision which was to try and win trophies.

"We'll see how things have gone by the end of the season.

"The fact is that Barca are playing cinematic football right now and it's fantastic to see that the other day when they beat Atletico Madrid 6-1 they had seven or eight guys who, like me, came through the club's youth system."

Messi praise

Fabregas, who left Barca for Arsenal as a 16-year-old, admits he still loves to watch his former team-mate Lionel Messi.

"Messi is the best player in the world and he has been for a long time, never mind what people used to think about Ronaldinho in his prime," he said.

"During Messi's football life I've seen him do incredible things on a football pitch, as a kid or now as a leader of the Barca team."

Fabregas also admitted that he is missing playing alongside midfielder Alex Hleb - who moved to Camp Nou last summer.

"Every week I chat to Alex Hleb on the phone because he's the guy I most miss at Arsenal. He's a friend and I also loved playing with him," he added.

"He always looks for you with a pass and if you give him the ball you can always count on getting it back at the right time."

 

[thegame24]

He will be gone at the end of this season and who can honestly blame him........

Fabregas "I have a dream"

Cesc Fabregas has told Spanish radio that he will assess his future at the end of the season.

The Spanish star has also admitted that a return to Barcelona would be a 'dream come true'.

Fabregas admitted he opted to stay at Emirates over the summer following his success at Euro 2008 with Spain.

The midfield schemer claims he stayed for the sole reason to try and win trophies at Arsenal, as so far during his five-year Gunners career he has picked up just one medal after lifting the FA Cup in 2005.

Now he is determined to pick up some silverware this term, but admits he will then look at his options.

"Right now I'm fine at Arsenal but I cannot deny that to return and play for Barca would be a dream come true," he told Catalan based station RAC 1.

"I chose to stay at the club last summer and right now I'm totally focused on the reason for that decision which was to try and win trophies.

"We'll see how things have gone by the end of the season.

"The fact is that Barca are playing cinematic football right now and it's fantastic to see that the other day when they beat Atletico Madrid 6-1 they had seven or eight guys who, like me, came through the club's youth system."

Messi praise

Fabregas, who left Barca for Arsenal as a 16-year-old, admits he still loves to watch his former team-mate Lionel Messi.

"Messi is the best player in the world and he has been for a long time, never mind what people used to think about Ronaldinho in his prime," he said.

"During Messi's football life I've seen him do incredible things on a football pitch, as a kid or now as a leader of the Barca team."

Fabregas also admitted that he is missing playing alongside midfielder Alex Hleb - who moved to Camp Nou last summer.

"Every week I chat to Alex Hleb on the phone because he's the guy I most miss at Arsenal. He's a friend and I also loved playing with him," he added.

"He always looks for you with a pass and if you give him the ball you can always count on getting it back at the right time."

Of course hes gonna go, been saying it since we didnt buy anyone this summer.

The guy is gonna be fed up waiting for players to reach his level.

Problem is i see us accepting 20 million for him instead of geting 50+

 

[kamikaze80]

captain, lets bring this back on topic.

do you think cesc is the reason our attack isnt as direct as it used to be? i'd argue that cesc is more than capable of playing the early through ball but we dont have thierry henry and robert pires in their prime anymore. we'd all agree that technically, going from those two to adebayor and walcott is a huge downgrade. the only upgrade is that adebayor now gives us a legitimate aerial threat.

finally, i dont care what anyone says, i dont see the same quality of passing from our midfield or from our support striker that i used to see from pires, vieira, bergkamp and reyes. it's a combination of not getting those runs from up top from adebayor (being offside is the same thing) or from walcott, and not getting the right angled pass from midfield. i cant tell you how many times we get the ball in a great position and all we need is a diagonal run behind the defence and a throughball to the other side of the defender and it doesnt happen.

i dont think this is cesc's fault, it's his crappy teammates. it's not that our attack is weak by any means, but we squander so many opportunities after a turnover before the opposing defence can reset. for me, this comes down to not enough direct off the ball running and not enough individual shooting ability. thats the biggest difference i see between us and united.

think about this too: we have more possession than any other team in the league by far, yet we also concede the most goals out of any of the top four. by definition, that means our defence is poor because theyre conceding more goals despite the opposition barely having the ball. if our defence were as good as the rest of the top four, we should be conceding fewer goals than them because we have so much more of the ball.

in my mind, we should play a direct game to begin with, overwhelm the opposition with unpredictable, direct off the ball movement and score through our superior technique and ability, then move to our possession game once we have the lead and hit them on the counter. if we have trouble finding the breakthrough, we can always revert to the possession game to recharge our batteries and with adebayor and bendtner, we should always have an aerial threat up top as well as an option.

 

[thegame24]

We should play the way we did at pool in the cl last season.

We dominated the **** out of their midfield and closed them down all over the pitch and ultimatly we scored early.

 

[Biggus]

Some people believe that Cesc needs 'a Vieira' next to him but in my opinion Cesc is supposed to be that player. Vieira was never a water carrier, he was the dominant partner who made things happen, which I'm assuming is what Cesc is supposed to be. If we put another one next to him, how will that balance the team?

Some people, who are facilely labelled doom & gloom mongers actually felt we were very much on the right track last season, as a Flamini beside him was as good as a Petit beside Vieira, and definitely had potential if allowed to flourish.

But unfortunately the club accountant/director of football/manager/team coach didn't like that arrangement.

i dont think this is cesc's fault, it's his crappy teammates.

Excellent post Kami, ain't that the truth.

in my mind, we should play a direct game to begin with, overwhelm the opposition with unpredictable, direct off the ball movement and score through our superior technique and ability, then move to our possession game once we have the lead and hit them on the counter. if we have trouble finding the breakthrough, we can always revert to the possession game to recharge our batteries and with adebayor and bendtner, we should always have an aerial threat up top as well as an option.

This is what I've also been saying for ages- pragmatism. Plenty of time for fannying about and showboating when we have the lead and they have to chase us.

 

[Shadow Moses]

Cesc is only one man, so of course we can win the league with him starting in midfield alongside greats.

This team is well over rated, face it the likes of Almunia, Van Persie, Denilson, Theo and two small Centre Backs are just not premier league winning quality.You cant rely on guys like them to peform for 38 games.

Cesc isnt quite as good as the Vieira of 23, but he is very close.Its not his fault his team mates are of much lower quality.Vieira played with a peak Henry, Pires, Sol, Dennis ffs.

Who does Cesc have?

A bland Denilson, sprinter Theo, cant dribble Ade, awkward balls Van Persie and midget Centre Half's.

Cesc is a legend.

Couldn't have said it any better. (except the Theo bit. I think he's actually going places)

 

[hackajack]

do you think cesc is the reason our attack isnt as direct as it used to be? i'd argue that cesc is more than capable of playing the early through ball but we dont have thierry henry and robert pires in their prime anymore.

I think our style has been modified partly because of the players we have (though that's about buying policy as well) and partly to be successful in Europe. The old 4411 was very effective in the PL but not against the quality five-man midfields that you get in Europe. Losing players like Henry, Vieira and Bergkamp has seen us change formation and play a possession-based game rather than the blitzkreig counterattacking that we used to employ.

 

[Anzac]

I don't think this squad will stay together long enough to win the title. I'm predicting we'll have possibly 3 starting players looking to move due to frustrations if we repeat last season = Cesc, Ade & Gallas - then there is the question regarding our injured players - Rosicky, Eduardo, RVP, Bischoff in regard to if they can regain form to contribute, or if Senderos will return etc.

AW may have to break the bank to replace, let alone any strengthening.

 

[Shadow Moses]

I don't think this squad will stay together long enough to win the title. I'm predicting we'll have possibly 3 starting players looking to move due to frustrations if we repeat last season = Cesc, Ade & Gallas - then there is the question regarding our injured players - Rosicky, Eduardo, RVP, Bischoff in regard to if they can regain form to contribute, or if Senderos will return etc.

AW may have to break the bank to replace, let alone any strengthening.

The sooner those two get the **** out of the team the better.

 

[Anzac]

I don't think this squad will stay together long enough to win the title. I'm predicting we'll have possibly 3 starting players looking to move due to frustrations if we repeat last season = Cesc, Ade & Gallas - then there is the question regarding our injured players - Rosicky, Eduardo, RVP, Bischoff in regard to if they can regain form to contribute, or if Senderos will return etc.

AW may have to break the bank to replace, let alone any strengthening.

The sooner those two get the f**k out of the team the better.

IMO this 'system' is not allowing several of our players to be at their best - primarily Cesc, RVP, Ade, Toure & Gallas.

 

[kamikaze80]

This is what I've also been saying for ages- pragmatism. Plenty of time for fannying about and showboating when we have the lead and they have to chase us.

that's the problem more than anything else, we're capable of overwhelming any team with pace and rapid ball movement but our players seem to enjoy having a kickabout instead of scoring goals. dominate possession as much as you want once we have a two goal lead (cos god knows we cant actually defend or soak up any pressure) but my lord, we need urgency. the moments where we've looked our best have been when we've picked up the pace of our game - it's simply too much for a defence to keep up with. and with the bench that we have, there's no excuse for the forwards not to run themselves ragged before being substituted.

i guess what captain and i are curious about is whether this slowing of our pace is due to fabregas. for me, i think it's due to lower quality up top and out wide compared to our invincibles team.

 

[patrick42uk]

For the record, I feel that we can win the league this year.

Strangely, i feel the same. Basically i feel the league is stronger and the top four will be more suceptible to losing to others outside of it. It will be very open. I think we'll have a situation post christmas where all top four clubs are still in with a shout.

 

[kamikaze80]

an 8 or 9 match winning streak is not beyond us, and as you say, there is more parity in the league as man city, everton, blackburn, pompey and especially villa are all decent sides. the problem is if we dig ourseves in too deep a hole, we'll have to leapfrog 3 teams instead of 1 or 2, and thats always more difficult, as we'd be dependent on the others getting bad results as much as needing good results ourselves.

 

[Arai]

For the record, I feel that we can win the league this year.

Realisticly yes.Its still early in the season.

AW should rectify any problem by now and use right formation every match.When needed try to purchase some experience players in the January transfer window.

 

[hackajack]

an 8 or 9 match winning streak is not beyond us, and as you say, there is more parity in the league as man city, everton, blackburn, pompey and especially villa are all decent sides. the problem is if we dig ourseves in too deep a hole, we'll have to leapfrog 3 teams instead of 1 or 2, and thats always more difficult, as we'd be dependent on the others getting bad results as much as needing good results ourselves.

We need to win the next 8 on the bounce including ManU at home to get back on track. I think there a bigger gap to the top 4 this year - Villa who are probably the best of the rest got destroyed by Chelsea, Everton have been poor, Sp**s disastrous.

 

[Zico]

That's the thing that bothers me: the top four is relatively stronger than ever. Villa will be exhausted post December, so do not expect them to feature in the Champions League conversation past then. The problem is that there is reduced for Arsenal to improve as there is no threat of losing that valuable Champions League spot. This probably means that Wenger and the board will not be pushed into making big buys and will probably continue to nurture their ill-advised youth experiment.

What does this mean for Cesc? It means that arguably the best central midfield play-maker in England is not being given the tools to dominate. Cesc's biggest problem right now is lack of an enforcer (a Gattuso or Makalele type who would allow Cesc to get forward more and probably shield our exposed central defense better than Denilson). He also lacks quality ahead of him. If Cesc was at Barca, he would be feeding Messi, Henry and Eto'o. At Arsenal there is not a single attacker remotely close to that realm.

I think there are so many doubts about players and systems on Arsenal that it all has to come back to one man - Wenger. He is truly p!ssing in the wind right now.