Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[Jury]

Wenger was forced out, thats why he wasn't allowed to address the press himself and had a statement by the club prepared for him instead. Its disgraceful. The man gets sacked for missing out on Cl once in 20 years. They couldn't even give him a chance to win the Uefa Cup before deciding. After all he has done for the club, after all the big clubs he has turned down for us...

I agree he was most probably given some sort of ultimatum, but I also think Wenger was open-ish to the offer. I think he feared the stadium being 3/4's full on the opening day of next season and another subsequent blowout. He's only human. They met in the middle... ish.

I don't agree it would have been (we dont know for sure) a disgrace to urge him near the door, though. There comes a time when the club has to think as a business (some may say we never stop doing that) but the fans needed a reason to flock back to the stadium. It would have only got worse, and it would have ended up ending terribly, with the club having to sack him midway through a season.

I think the club and/or Wenger have made a great decision, and I also really like the timing of it.

 

[carlito'sway]

Bless your hearts you both......

 

[celestis]

I don't have a horse in this race but why do people keep saying Ornstein is reporter not a journalist .They are the same things , to be completely technical he's actually a correspondant. If you look at his old bio he was a journalist .

 

[Slartibartfast]

Again, am I expected to record Wenger saying that he was forced out of the club?

We may as well discount all forms of journalism then

Putting aside this debate over sources, any clued up Arsenal fan, aside from those who opt to close their eyes and ears, should be able to deduce that Wenger has been forced out here based on his repeated pronouncements that he would not leave before the end of his contract.

For example:

https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/03/2...another-club-after-finishing-contract-arsenal



That was literally less than a month ago. What could have changed his stance so radically within that month?

You really don't understand Arsène Wenger at all if you don't think he would always put the good of the club first. It's why he decided to stay last year and it's why he decided to leave now. He stayed last year because they really weren't prepared to replace him (something that was actually pretty obvious at the time). Because he stayed, they were able to start laying the groundwork for his departure, be it this year or next. You've seen this in action. Now, he's looked at the results and the half-empty stadium and decided leaving now rather than next year is the best thing for the club.

Of course he's had ongoing talks with Gazidis and others, but there is no evidence that he was sacked. Since you are the one making that claim here, it's upon you to provide evidence of such, not me to disprove it. All you've given me so far is the speculation of the same guys who are held in such contempt for making the transfer window the silly season. The one guy who is actually trusted on Arsenal matters is Ornstein, and he says different. He said that while there were divided opinions on the board, the guys who actually mattered were set to let him see out his contract. You (or maybe it was somebody else) claimed that Ornstein was just parroting the company line. But one of the things he said was that Arsène seriously considered leaving last year, but the club had no plan in place to replace him. Why would Arsenal make that a company line? That makes the club look worse than had they just openly fired him.

So unless you can provide some factual evidence or at least point me to a source, I will continue to consider it wild speculation. It's just like the English football press to try to kick Arsène Wenger in the nuts at a time when his contributions to the game should be celebrated. It sells papers and generates clicks, which makes advertisers happy. And once one prints the story, the rest have to create their own versions because they see the financial benefit or preying on the gullible, just as they do during the transfer window. Yet none of them ever seem to actually have sources for their information.

 

[Sanchez11]

Wenger has himself been very proud of the fact that he never resigned from any job and has always honoured his contracts.

Suddenly it is announced that he will be leaving a year before his contract expires and that suggests to me that either he has health problems or that he was asked to step down or be sacked anyway.

The likely scenario is that the board told Wenger that sacking him is the last option they want to take, but unfortunately, they simply can't see him stay on for another year and unless he agrees to step down at their request, they will have to terminate his contract in the summer and kind of end their relationship on bad terms. Wenger is intelligent enough to at this point realise that stepping down is the only sensible option for him to take. I'm sure once he writes his book, it will mentioned that he only resigned because the club told him to do so.

I want this book!!

 

[Slartibartfast]

I don't have a horse in this race but why do people keep saying Ornstein is reporter not a journalist .They are the same things , to be completely technical he's actually a correspondant. If you look at his old bio he was a journalist .

In fact, it is the reporter who is the journalist. More so than a columnist, whose job it is to write opinions. The reporter is the one who gathers facts and writes the articles. That is journalism in a nutshell.

 

[Jury]

Awful post.

And I rarely say stuff like that.

It was. It almost makes me want to post something like:

'Well the WOB's won this fight. We forced him out early. We won, you lost, so shove that up your pipe and deal with it'.

That would actually be a commensurable response. Let that sink in...

 

[KROENKE SUCKS]

If it was all consensual, why wasn't Wenger allowed to announce his resignation himself? Why has the club carefully controlled the message from start to finish. No I am sorry there is something beyond the party line here.

 

[celestis]

Anyways this is what he wrote on the matter .


What has been happening behind the scenes?
Arsenal has become a deeply political club at board level. They were split on whether Wenger should have signed a new two-year contract last summer, and that situation had not changed.

The difference compared to a year ago is that Arsenal have a new structure off the pitch - Sanllehi arrived from Barcelona; Mislintat from Dortmund; head of negotiations Huss Fahmy from Team Sky; and head of high performance Darren Burgess from Australian Rules football.

All four have inherited significant power and influence, and worked with Gazidis to put a structure in place for life beyond Wenger.

Virtually the only new head of department that had not been appointed was a head coach. The big question was whether that would be Wenger or not.

Until the final decision was made on Thursday evening and then delivered on Friday morning, even some of the most important staff at the club did not know this was coming. Indeed, there remained a feeling he may see out his contract.

However, plans were tentatively being put in place and I have heard suggestions that a five-strong shortlist was being drawn up to present to Kroenke in the event of Wenger leaving.

Wenger's possible departure had been a talking point for months, even years. Every time there was a bad period of form, the rumours started and this recent poor run did not feel greatly different.

Even when Wenger called his staff and players to meetings after 09:00 BST on Friday - unusual on a recovery day for players - it created a lot of whispers, but few expected the news that followed.

Remember, the 68-year-old Frenchman has never broken a contract in his career. I sensed that members of the hierarchy, even those who wanted a change, accepted he would probably see out the deal he signed last summer.

I was told recently that Wenger was as stubborn, determined and energetic as ever and if he was to leave he would need to be dragged out kicking and screaming.

However, it is my understanding Wenger was actually closer to walking away towards the end of last season than we knew at the time. Confidants had urged him to leave on a high after the FA Cup win against Chelsea in May.

At that time, Arsenal did not have a firm plan in place to succeed him. They were not particularly well set up to start a recruitment process. Wenger knew as much and a part of him sensed - rightly or wrongly - that going then could have left them in the lurch, that he had something of an obligation to carry on and have one last crack a leading this team to success.

But things have deteriorated - on the pitch, in the stands and at a political level. Ask people what has changed and the response is "that is precisely the problem - nothing has changed to improve the situation from him".

Those around Wenger could not see a way back after the limp defeat at Brighton in March that followed two defeats by Manchester City. As welcome as the victory that followed over AC Milan at the San Siro was, there was a growing acceptance that this would be his final campaign in charge.

Witnessing how far his team had fallen adrift of Premier League champions City opened Wenger's eyes to the stark reality of where Arsenal stood and the near-impossible challenge he would face in the final year of his contract. He knew his time was up.

He has always been the great survivor at Arsenal, he has taken all the bullets and carried on, shielding the board, players and club. But it is only human that he started to feel the criticism piercing him.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Why does this thread remind me of reading comments from Fox News viewers?

 

[Trilly]

1. I didn't mention any of those papers. That's either an awful strawman or you're being deliberately dense.

2. I said the respectable papers are reporting it. You clearly know who the respectable papers (as they are all the ones you didn't mention). Why have you chosen to deliberately ignore my point?

The Times: Arsène Wenger told after 22 years: go or be sacked


The Independent: Arséne Wenger walked out on Arsenal to avoid the sack and would be open to the right managerial job


The Guardian: Wenger jumped because he feared push from Arsenal board

And yes. All the tabloids that you helpfully posted above are also reporting the same story. Including the likes of John Cross who people often treat as oh so reliable on Arsenal.

3. To be fair to you Carlito, I thought I should also include all the respectable papers who are reporting that Wenger jumped completely of his own volition:








4. Yeah.

5. But what about Jeremy Wilson I hear you wimper? I thought that he's never given 'any credence to this nonsense'. And he outweighs all the other journalists outlined above.

Well about that:
Forced. Upon. Arséne Wenger.

Seems like he's saying the same thing as all the others to me. He's certainly not contradicting them.

6. Ornstein's the only one not running with this story about how it happened. But the thing is that Ornstein isn't running with any story about how it happened. As @American_Gooner has pointed out, he's a reporter not a journalist.

This is a good illustration for me:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43841645


Orstnein is being completely open about the fact that he doesn't know how the decision was made. Crucially, he has not dismissed the reports about him jumping before he was pushed.

7. I understand that this is an emotional couple of days for you, as one of the 0.8% on this forum who somehow still thought that Wenger was the right man for the job. That's no excuse for this genuinely pathetic posting however. The news isn't just the stories that you agree with.

If you want to reply do so with facts (notice how I've added quotes and links for you?), not this tedious 'fake news' dribble.

This is the ultimate mic drop post, there's literally no come back to this one.

Am I surprised scroll down a bit further and see the typical 'I've been schooled so will now just reply with something patronising' style response? Not at all.

 

[BobP]

You really don't understand Arséne Wenger at all if you don't think he would always put the good of the club first. It's why he decided to stay last year and it's why he decided to leave now. He stayed last year because they really weren't prepared to replace him (something that was actually pretty obvious at the time). Because he stayed, they were able to start laying the groundwork for his departure, be it this year or next. You've seen this in action. Now, he's looked at the results and the half-empty stadium and decided leaving now rather than next year is the best thing for the club.

Of course he's had ongoing talks with Gazidis and others, but there is no evidence that he was sacked. Since you are the one making that claim here, it's upon you to provide evidence of such, not me to disprove it. All you've given me so far is the speculation of the same guys who are held in such contempt for making the transfer window the silly season. The one guy who is actually trusted on Arsenal matters is Ornstein, and he says different. He said that while there were divided opinions on the board, the guys who actually mattered were set to let him see out his contract. You (or maybe it was somebody else) claimed that Ornstein was just parroting the company line. But one of the things he said was that Arséne seriously considered leaving last year, but the club had no plan in place to replace him. Why would Arsenal make that a company line? That makes the club look worse than had they just openly fired him.

So unless you can provide some factual evidence or at least point me to a source, I will continue to consider it wild speculation. It's just like the English football press to try to kick Arséne Wenger in the nuts at a time when his contributions to the game should be celebrated. It sells papers and generates clicks, which makes advertisers happy. And once one prints the story, the rest have to create their own versions because they see the financial benefit or preying on the gullible, just as they do during the transfer window. Yet none of them ever seem to actually have sources for their information.

You continue to insist that there is no basis for believing that Wenger was forced out despite the fact that I've quoted Wenger himself saying that he had no intention of leaving prior to the expiration of his contract at the end of next season less than a month ago.

That's not speculation, that's straight from the horses mouth.

I ask again: how can a manager who stated the above less than a month ago, perform a 180 degree turn and step aside willingly?

Unless you are a close confidant of Arsène Wenger's, a member of his 'inner-circle' so to speak, which I highly doubt, there is literally nothing underpinning your assertion in that section I have in bold.

I find it hilarious that the source I've pointed to i.e. The Times is rubbished whilst Ornstein is being cited extensively despite the timely comments made by @American_Gooner.

 

[BobP]

1. I didn't mention any of those papers. That's either an awful strawman or you're being deliberately dense.

2. I said the respectable papers are reporting it. You clearly know who the respectable papers (as they are all the ones you didn't mention). Why have you chosen to deliberately ignore my point?

The Times: Arsène Wenger told after 22 years: go or be sacked


The Independent: Arséne Wenger walked out on Arsenal to avoid the sack and would be open to the right managerial job


The Guardian: Wenger jumped because he feared push from Arsenal board

And yes. All the tabloids that you helpfully posted above are also reporting the same story. Including the likes of John Cross who people often treat as oh so reliable on Arsenal.

3. To be fair to you Carlito, I thought I should also include all the respectable papers who are reporting that Wenger jumped completely of his own volition:








4. Yeah.

5. But what about Jeremy Wilson I hear you wimper? I thought that he's never given 'any credence to this nonsense'. And he outweighs all the other journalists outlined above.

Well about that:
Forced. Upon. Arséne Wenger.

Seems like he's saying the same thing as all the others to me. He's certainly not contradicting them.

6. Ornstein's the only one not running with this story about how it happened. But the thing is that Ornstein isn't running with any story about how it happened. As @American_Gooner has pointed out, he's a reporter not a journalist.

This is a good illustration for me:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43841645


Orstnein is being completely open about the fact that he doesn't know how the decision was made. Crucially, he has not dismissed the reports about him jumping before he was pushed.

7. I understand that this is an emotional couple of days for you, as one of the 0.8% on this forum who somehow still thought that Wenger was the right man for the job. That's no excuse for this genuinely pathetic posting however. The news isn't just the stories that you agree with.

If you want to reply do so with facts (notice how I've added quotes and links for you?), not this tedious 'fake news' dribble.

 

[Jae]

Why are we arguing over the ins and outs of why he's left or if he was jumped or pushed?

I have the utmost of respect for Wenger but the most important thing in all this is that he's gone, I couldn't care less wether he was sacked or left of his own accord, I'm sure we'll find out in a few years when his autobiography gets published - might as well leave it be until then.

 

[Jury]

Why does this thread remind me of reading comments from Fox News viewers?

Because you know what they read like?

 

[Trilly]

You really don't understand Arséne Wenger at all if you don't think he would always put the good of the club first.

We like to think we know him but really and truly none of us do, I do agree with you though just playing devil's advocate here.

It's why he decided to stay last year and it's why he decided to leave now.

You know this how?

He stayed last year because they really weren't prepared to replace him (something that was actually pretty obvious at the time).

You know this how? Obvious how?

The one guy who is actually trusted on Arsenal matters is Ornstein, and he says different.

Same Ornstein who said that he doesn't actually know what happened and is repeating what he's been told?

So unless you can provide some factual evidence or at least point me to a source, I will continue to consider it wild speculation.

Provide evidence you know doesn't exist? Point you to a source, even though there's already a few well-reputed ones in the previous pages? All to counter your own wild speculation?

 

[Trilly]

It was. It almost makes me want to post something like:

'Well the WOB's won this fight. We forced him out early. We won, you lost, so shove that up your pipe and deal with it'.

That would actually be a commensurable response. Let that sink in...

It's one thing I won't miss.

We'll actually be able to discuss our next manager without what seems to be love/infatuation creeping into it and ruining rational discussions.

 

[field442]

1. I didn't mention any of those papers. That's either an awful strawman or you're being deliberately dense.

2. I said the respectable papers are reporting it. You clearly know who the respectable papers (as they are all the ones you didn't mention). Why have you chosen to deliberately ignore my point?

The Times: Arsène Wenger told after 22 years: go or be sacked


The Independent: Arséne Wenger walked out on Arsenal to avoid the sack and would be open to the right managerial job


The Guardian: Wenger jumped because he feared push from Arsenal board

And yes. All the tabloids that you helpfully posted above are also reporting the same story. Including the likes of John Cross who people often treat as oh so reliable on Arsenal.

3. To be fair to you Carlito, I thought I should also include all the respectable papers who are reporting that Wenger jumped completely of his own volition:








4. Yeah.

5. But what about Jeremy Wilson I hear you wimper? I thought that he's never given 'any credence to this nonsense'. And he outweighs all the other journalists outlined above.

Well about that:
Forced. Upon. Arséne Wenger.

Seems like he's saying the same thing as all the others to me. He's certainly not contradicting them.

6. Ornstein's the only one not running with this story about how it happened. But the thing is that Ornstein isn't running with any story about how it happened. As @American_Gooner has pointed out, he's a reporter not a journalist.

This is a good illustration for me:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43841645


Orstnein is being completely open about the fact that he doesn't know how the decision was made. Crucially, he has not dismissed the reports about him jumping before he was pushed.

7. I understand that this is an emotional couple of days for you, as one of the 0.8% on this forum who somehow still thought that Wenger was the right man for the job. That's no excuse for this genuinely pathetic posting however. The news isn't just the stories that you agree with.

If you want to reply do so with facts (notice how I've added quotes and links for you?), not this tedious 'fake news' dribble.

 

[Trilly]

perform a 180 degree turn

You're learning at least.

 

[Gegen Pressing]

I don't have a horse in this race but why do people keep saying Ornstein is reporter not a journalist ..

Matt Hughes, Deputy Football Correspondent , The Times

Piers columnist not reporter for the Daily Mail WC- not news-paper