✍️ OFFICIAL Lucas Torreira (Out)

[truth_hurts]

If Torreira wants to leave I've got no issues with that, makes me wonder whether he'll be willing to head to Spain though & we could simply do a player swap Torreira for Partey with Atletico.

It's tough to work out whether Torerria would be a good first for Atletico or not. Simeone would love his engine and tenacity, but his lack of technical ability would stand out like a sore thumb next to the likes of Saul, Lenar and Koke.

Rumours were that Xhaka was a target for Simeone not that long ago, who is probably closer in style (nowhere near like for like though) to Partey than Torreria.

 

[Aussie_gunner123]

It's tough to work out whether Torerria would be a good first for Atletico or not. Simeone would love his engine and tenacity, but his lack of technical ability would stand out like a sore thumb next to the likes of Saul, Lenar and Koke.

Rumours were that Xhaka was a target for Simeone not that long ago, who is probably closer in style (nowhere near like for like though) to Partey than Torreria.

Imo Partey is a much more needed signing then Torreira is for us, in saying that he is a good player, not denying that but we need a signing much more to the quality of Partey. If we can manage to do that with Athletico that will be a good bargain for us. I guess all we can do though is wait & see.

 

[truth_hurts]

Imo Partey is a much more needed signing then Torreira is for us, in saying that he is a good player, not denying that but we need a signing much more to the quality of Partey. If we can manage to do that with Athletico that will be a good bargain for us. I guess all we can do though is wait & see.

Undoubtedly, Partey is a better player than Torreria. Strangely though as a relentless ball winner, Torreria is better.

It's a bit like Jordan Henderson at Liverpool or for England. We could probably all name 30-50 better cms, but in terms of the way he executes his role for club and country, he's unbelievable.

That said, I'd sacrifice Torreria to get Partey, but Ideally we need both types of player.

 

[scytheavatar]

It’s odd though because Torreira looked impressive when Arteta first came in but then he got dropped out of nowhere. I think it was more about tactics/shape than anything else.

Xhaka was dropping into the quarter back role and the other CM needed to be technically proficient to maximise creativity, and Torreira isn’t that. Torreira is a sitting player, it must have been Emery’s most weirdest ever decision to start playing him as a box2box/AM toward the end. That guy really lost it in his last few months here.

Yet even Arteta agreed that Torreira isn't a sitting player and would rather play Xhaka........ if Torreira can play the sitting role he would have already been played that by Emery and Arteta. He can't play the role because he doesn't have the football IQ necessary to be a DLP, nor does he have the positioning to be a DM. Just like Xhaka Torreira has an awkward mix of skills and abilities which makes it hard to see where he fits into a team.

 

[truth_hurts]

Yet even Arteta agreed that Torreira isn't a sitting player and would rather play Xhaka........ if Torreira can play the sitting role he would have already been played that by Emery and Arteta. He can't play the role because he doesn't have the football IQ necessary to be a DLP, nor does he have the positioning to be a DM. Just like Xhaka Torreira has an awkward mix of skills and abilities which makes it hard to see where he fits into a team.

Same role that Kante played for Leicester. Kante was never a DM, people just said that because he won the ball back so much. He was up and down the pitch and started most attacks. Funnily enough, Drinkwater played the Xhaka role of retaining the ball, switching the play and transitioning the ball forwards with long passes.

Torreria isn't a sitting player, he's all action. This DM thing was created by Champ manager. Remember Ancelotti's great AC Milan team? I wonder how many refer to Gattuso as the DM when he often played further forward than Purlo, who got the ball off defenders? My guess would be most.

The question would be if Torreria has enough to his all round game because he's bloody brilliant at winning the ball.

 

[Red London]

Same role that Kante played for Leicester. Kante was never a DM, people just said that because he won the ball back so much. He was up and down the pitch and started most attacks. Funnily enough, Drinkwater played the Xhaka role of retaining the ball, switching the play and transitioning the ball forwards with long passes.

Torreria isn't a sitting player, he's all action. This DM thing was created by Champ manager. Remember Ancelotti's great AC Milan team? I wonder how many refer to Gattuso as the DM when he often played further forward than Purlo, who got the ball off defenders? My guess would be most.

The question would be if Torreria has enough to his all round game because he's bloody brilliant at winning the ball.

Being a defensive midfield player doesn’t necessarily mean you have to stay the most far back in the midfield. It just means your role on the pitch is to make more tackles / interception / physically impose yourself. DLP means deep lying playmaker for a reason, they have an impact on the attack but from a less advanced role.

But even given that, Torreira played as a sitting midfielder for Uraguay in the knock outs of the World Cup so I don’t get why he’s suddenly not being considered that type of player. He was sitting in front of the defence. The difference is that Uraguay had a deep defensive line while arsenal don’t, so Torreira was part of a organised midfield line unlike us.

At arsenal in the PL he’s often in a lot of space, with his nearest team mate being further away on average, that has exposed his physical frailty and the fact that he really is piss slow (in terms of his top speed)

 

[truth_hurts]

Being a defensive midfield player doesn’t necessarily mean you have to stay the most far back in the midfield. It just means your role on the pitch is to make more tackles / interception / physically impose yourself. DLP means deep lying playmaker for a reason, they have an impact on the attack but from a less advanced role.

But even given that, Torreira played as a sitting midfielder for Uraguay in the knock outs of the World Cup so I don’t get why he’s suddenly not being considered that type of player. He was sitting in front of the defence. The difference is that Uraguay had a deep defensive line while arsenal don’t, so Torreira was part of a organised midfield line unlike us.

At arsenal in the PL he’s often in a lot of space, with his nearest team mate being further away on average, that has exposed his physical frailty and the fact that he really is piss slow (in terms of his top speed)

This is true for Torreria for Uruguay. Torreria is defensive minded, but we don't seem to know how to use him. I'd actually compare him to Jordan Henderson in terms of the role he should player here in my opinion. I think many would compare him to Fabinho though.

I don't mind losing him, but if we are to become a team with a relentless pressing system, losing Torreria and keeping Xhaka seems nuts.

Torreria, Willock, Guendouzi seem to fit this. Partey would, Xhaka and Torreria don't.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

This is true for Torreria for Uruguay. Torreria is defensive minded, but we don't seem to know how to use him. I'd actually compare him to Jordan Henderson in terms of the role he should player here in my opinion. I think many would compare him to Fabinho though.

I don't mind losing him, but if we are to become a team with a relentless pressing system, losing Torreria and keeping Xhaka seems nuts.

Torreria, Willock, Guendouzi seem to fit this. Partey would, Xhaka and Torreria don't.

If it makes you easier for you I'd say he's comparable to neither Henderson or Fabinho.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Also what's all this talk about being a relentless pressing team? Arteta's philosophy is possession based first and foremost, pressing will be a part of it but we're not gonna prioritise players based on their ability to press ahead of technical qualities for example. Ball carriers, efficient passers, tactically astute players are more important for the team than someone who runs about a lot.

Pep didn't go out and sign a load of work-horses just because he likes his team to press.

 

[GDeep™]

No, he just pumps his team full of drugs...cheating prick.

Drugs aren’t working though, they’ve not done anything in Europe and they’ve been poor in the league over the last two years I reckon.

 

[truth_hurts]

If it makes you easier for you I'd say he's comparable to neither Henderson or Fabinho.

True, those two are both winners. I see more similarities between Henderson and Torreria than the lazy Kante comparison.

 

[truth_hurts]

Also what's all this talk about being a relentless pressing team? Arteta's philosophy is possession based first and foremost, pressing will be a part of it but we're not gonna prioritise players based on their ability to press ahead of technical qualities for example. Ball carriers, efficient passers, tactically astute players are more important for the team than someone who runs about a lot.

Pep didn't go out and sign a load of work-horses just because he likes his team to press.

Well he's off to a stinker then! Burnley and Newcastle manipulated the ball better than us in our encounters.

I'd credit Arteta for improving our work rate (particularly of the ball) since he came in.

Where have I stated Pep went out and bought players based on physical attributes? You are also suggesting that you haven't heard of the 6 second rule at Barcelona? Arteta is his own man though, a Pep comparison is also lazy - I do it aa lot.

I'm not sure why you have made technique and physicality mutually exclusive for a footballer - it isn't.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

True, those two are both winners. I see more similarities between Henderson and Torreria than the lazy Kante comparison.

Henderson is an absolute superb athlete with great physicality. He's different to Torreira in some ways, he's more effective shall we say. Torreira is like a poor version of Mascherano for Liverpool.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Well he's off to a stinker then! Burnley and Newcastle manipulated the ball better than us in our encounters.

I'd credit Arteta for improving our work rate (particularly of the ball) since he came in.

Where have I stated Pep went out and bought players based on physical attributes? You are also suggesting that you haven't heard of the 6 second rule at Barcelona? Arteta is his own man though, a Pep comparison is also lazy - I do it aa lot.

I'm not sure why you have made technique and physicality mutually exclusive for a footballer - it isn't.

I mean just because someone like Pep encourages pressing doesn't mean he goes out and signs players primarily for their pressing capabilities. Arteta has a similar philosophy to Pep. We're doing badly because of players like Torreira who don't have the technical ability to help us keep the ball and use it efficiently, not just him we could do with an entirely new midfield.

Of course Arteta wants work rate, but I'd say he ideally wants technical players work hard as opposed to technically limited players with fantastic work ethic. It's very rare that you get a De Bruyne, a guy who excels both technical and physical sides of the game, Partey is probably the closest we can get in that regard hence why there's such interest. But we'll not be playing someone like Torreira just because he gets about the pitch, I mean we was dropped for Ceballos, that should tell you what Arteta is primarily focusing in.

 

[TornadoTed]

Drugs aren’t working though, they’ve not done anything in Europe and they’ve been poor in the league over the last two years I reckon.

They have had their problems this year for sure but poor for the last two years, really?

It was only 12 months ago that they were crowned 2018-19 Premier League champions, winning 32 matches and amassing 98 points, the 2nd highest Premiership points tally ever.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

People in here are so deluded about Torreira, he’s not good as a DM or CM.

Really you can count how many good games he’s had at Arsenal on one hand.

 

[Ceballinhos]

Also what's all this talk about being a relentless pressing team? Arteta's philosophy is possession based first and foremost, pressing will be a part of it but we're not gonna prioritise players based on their ability to press ahead of technical qualities for example. Ball carriers, efficient passers, tactically astute players are more important for the team than someone who runs about a lot.

Pep didn't go out and sign a load of work-horses just because he likes his team to press.

Really?
Most Pep players have an incredible engine. KDB being the prime exemple of the modern CAM, who impacts the game with the ball, but also without with his crazy athleticism for his position.
That's why you'll never see an Özil type of player (even at his best level) in his teams.
His fullbacks were monsters in athleticism. They never stop running.


What makes pep teams so good is that they're almost as good with the ball than without. If they loose the ball they can get it back really fast and really high on the pitch, which allows them to be deadly when they get the ball back.

 

[MutableEarth]

Really?
Most Pep players have an incredible engine. KDB being the prime exemple of the modern CAM, who impacts the game with the ball, but also without with his crazy athleticism for his position.
That's why you'll never see an Özil type of player (even at his best level) in his teams.
His fullbacks were monsters in athleticism. They never stop running.


What makes pep teams so good is that they're almost as good with the ball than without. If they loose the ball they can get it back really fast and really high on the pitch, which allows them to be deadly when they get the ball back.

They are also technically sound players, not just energy merchants for the sake of it. The point is, for our game plan to work, we cannot sacrifice one for the other.

 

[Ceballinhos]

They are also technically sound players, not just energy merchants for the sake of it. The point is, for our game plan to work, we cannot sacrifice one for the other.

I never said the opposite.
But technique without athleticism and drive gives you a player like Özil, and you can't build a winning side anymore without a good amount of athleticism.

The main issue with our team imo is that we have players that are neither great technically speaking and they are liabilities on the physical side of the game.
We need to find the right balance back. The invincibles were a perfect mix between technique and pure athleticism.

 

[MutableEarth]

I never said the opposite.
But technique without athleticism and drive gives you a player like Özil, and you can't build a winning side anymore without a good amount of athleticism.

The main issue with our team imo is that we have players that are neither great technically speaking and they are liabilities on the physical side of the game.
We need to find the right balance back. The invincibles were a perfect mix between technique and pure athleticism.

I agree completely - we ironically lack both in technique and physicality. It's up to us to improve in both areas.