Aaron Ramsey (Out)

[House MD]

Statswise they are really close in almost all departments. Sometimes one is slightly ahead, sometimes the other.

pogba is surely the technically superior player in terms of skill on the ball and first touch as well as physicality. But I think that's what's a bit deceiving, including the allround atmosphere and image of these two guys.

Ramsey has the better engine, his offensive movement off the ball is better, his positioning is better, and, at least for me, he's shown a stronger mentality.

Now, I will admit as much as that pogba looks superior because he's got more flair to his game. He might even be the more naturally talented of the two. But in terms of what they've actually achieved on the pitch, Ramsey is, to both club and country, the more important one and has done more than pogba.

With pogba there's so much hype and media deception going on. He's an adidas icon, he's flashy, he's been hyped up ever since, he's in with the young generation, blabla. Ramsey is the rather quiet guy from Wales whose most daunting public action was to dye his hair blond for a month. To each his own, but don't let that get into your thinking. And I truly believe that pogba being constantly in the public eye for whatever reasons and the hype created around him since his breakthrough are actually working in his favour when assessed.

I just looked at the stats, and they suggest they're very similar players on a very similar level. But the difference to me is, Ramsey, given the context, has achieved more and is the more influential player for the teams he's played in. Even if you consider Ramseys 13/14 form a purple patch (and in terms of output it slightly was), but if pogba is so much better than him why hasn't he shown anything that comes near to that dominant stretch of play in England? If he's so clearly better, why isn't he doing it on a regular basis? Why hasn't he done it just once? Because he just isn't that good.

I mean, pogba is still regarded as the man in the french NT, but really it's been Griezmann all those past years now. Matuidi and Dembele were running that midfield. He's walked the Serie A a couple of times, but in the challenging situation at Utd he's just shown mental weakness thus far.

By the way with mentioning Utd: Someone who rated Ramsey highly and thought of him as "one that got away" when he couldn't sign him, was SAF.

I surely don't wear Arsenal tinted glasses saying Ramsey is one of the world's top, top CMs. There's a couple of superior players out there, of course, but I just think pogba, while clearly being a very good player, isn't one of them or that he has shown anything Ramsey couldn't do. pogba is overrated - not in terms of being truly ****e, but in that he's just not as good as a lot of people seem to think.

I don't want to get in a massive compare and contrast thingy with you, I just think pogba's assessment is heavily influenced by his media persona and that he's overrated, and that him and Ramsey are very good players on a similar level - but not wordlcass atm - , with both having the potential to be even better, but with the Welshman a good stretch ahead right now.

So to sum up, Pogba is average at best and Ramsey is a top top player? Not a lot of people will agree with you there out of this forum I’m afraid

 

[Toby]

So to sum up, Pogba is average at best and Ramsey is a top top player? Not a lot of people will agree with you there out of this forum I’m afraid

Can you read? If so, go back and read that last paragraph. It sums up the post and clearly states: Both very good, could both probably still up their game, but none is worldclass atm, Ramsey a step ahead for me.

And regarding most others out there not being of that opinion: All of my football interested friends think Pogba is a overrated joke nutjob and ManUtd got robbed paying so much. Ramsey was rather unkown but since the EC 2016 most acknowledge him maybe not as top class, but at least as a decent player and Wales' standout performer.

 

[House MD]

Can you read? If so, go back and read that last paragraph. It sums up the post and clearly states: Both very good, could both probably still up their game, but none is worldclass atm, Ramsey a step ahead for me.

And regarding most others out there not being of that opinion: All of my football interested friends think Pogba is a overrated joke nutjob and ManUtd got robbed paying so much. Ramsey was rather unkown but since the EC 2016 most acknowledge him maybe not as top class, but at least as a decent player and Wales' standout performer.

Not denying that Ramsey is a decent player but Pogba is clearly better. Pogba is also one of the first names on the sheet for France. I’ve never seen anyone say Ramsey is the better player like ever. Not even fans on twitter say that and twitter is full of weird people.

 

[samshere]

Ramsey out - Jorginho in. We'll prolly have to win the EL for that to happen though. Otherwise the scenario could very easily be Ramsey out - Meyer in.

 

[Toby]

Pogba is also one of the first names on the sheet for France.

He may be, but the clear standout performers have been others. I'd actually go as far and say he was a passenger in 2016: Matuidi and Sissoko ran the midfield, Griezmann and Payet were their best players.

Jonas Hector is one of the first names on Germany's sheet, but that doesn't make him worldclass - he's a decently solid LB and does a job for them.

Now you could say the same about Ramsey, but you could clearly see what happened to that team when he was out in the semi finals. He and Bale did an outstanding job for them. The hip frenchie hasn't done anything of note for his national team.

His stats might be slighlty better overall, and I can see where a lot of the reverence comes from: He's got more superficial strenghts than Ramsey, e.g. technicality, skill, flair and he's a flashier person with lots of media attention heaved upon him. It certainly looks as if he's the better footballer, but if you look close enough I don't think that's the case.
Right now that they're quite level there's nothing to suggest Pogba is indefinitely better per se. And considering Ramsey's best patches of form in the Premier League, the frenchman hasn't shown anything close to it, not even once. Further, the Welshman has been far more influential at both Arsenal and Wales than Pogba for Utd, France and I'd even say Juve, with the kind of team he had around him allowing him to play to his strenghts.

So again, if he's clearly better, why is he performing on a similar level without ever having produced Ramsey's peak performances in the PL? Now if you come around with the "it's Mourinho's fault he's underperforming"-stuff, you'd also have to factor in that same context with Ramsey.

Besides, it's actually too specific of a comparison (Ramsey vs. Pogba) that I've ever had it come up in any discussion. So you can only go by what people say about them independently.
But with most all of my footballing peer group outside of the net, the frenchie is considered overhyped. Not bad or average, but certainly overhyped, especially in terms of how he's regarded, applauded and behaves himself in relation to what he's actually done and shown on the pitch and/or won. And in such a context, Ramsey is actually seen as the, if only slightly, better player.

 

[House MD]

He may be, but the clear standout performers have been others. I'd actually go as far and say he was a passenger in 2016: Matuidi and Sissoko ran the midfield, Griezmann and Payet were their best players.

Jonas Hector is one of the first names on Germany's sheet, but that doesn't make him worldclass - he's a decently solid LB and does a job for them.

Now you could say the same about Ramsey, but you could clearly see what happened to that team when he was out in the semi finals. He and Bale did an outstanding job for them. The hip frenchie hasn't done anything of note for his national team.

His stats might be slighlty better overall, and I can see where a lot of the reverence comes from: He's got more superficial strenghts than Ramsey, e.g. technicality, skill, flair and he's a flashier person with lots of media attention heaved upon him. It certainly looks as if he's the better footballer, but if you look close enough I don't think that's the case.
Right now that they're quite level there's nothing to suggest Pogba is indefinitely better per se. And considering Ramsey's best patches of form in the Premier League, the frenchman hasn't shown anything close to it, not even once. Further, the Welshman has been far more influential at both Arsenal and Wales than Pogba for Utd, France and I'd even say Juve, with the kind of team he had around him allowing him to play to his strenghts.

So again, if he's clearly better, why is he performing on a similar level without ever having produced Ramsey's peak performances in the PL? Now if you come around with the "it's Mourinho's fault he's underperforming"-stuff, you'd also have to factor in that same context with Ramsey.

Besides, it's actually too specific of a comparison (Ramsey vs. Pogba) that I've ever had it come up in any discussion. So you can only go by what people say about them independently.
But with most all of my footballing peer group outside of the net, the frenchie is considered overhyped. Not bad or average, but certainly overhyped, especially in terms of how he's regarded, applauded and behaves himself in relation to what he's actually done and shown on the pitch and/or won. And in such a context, Ramsey is actually seen as the, if only slightly, better player.

Pogba was the Best Young player in the last World Cup. But it’s moot. Last euro Ashley Williams was really good for Wales. So was Robson Kanu. So are they very good too?.

Last season Pogba was one of the midfielders who created the most number of chances in the PL. To say he hasn’t done anything is wrong. Even this season, a squawka comparison shows Pogba is better in most metrics (chances created, key passes, defence attack etc).

 

[Toby]

Pogba was the Best Young player in the last World Cup. But it’s moot. Last euro Ashley Williams was really good for Wales. So was Robson Kanu. So are they very good too?.

Last season Pogba was one of the midfielders who created the most number of chances in the PL. To say he hasn’t done anything is wrong. Even this season, a squawka comparison shows Pogba is better in most metrics (chances created, key passes, defence attack etc).

performance in tournaments is a very specific context and to be able to perform in those certainly shows some quality at least in that context, while it isn't implying too much on a player's ability to perform over the course of a whole season.

He is better in most, but just slightly. And to say he's better in defensive stats is a bit of a stretch. The no. of interceptions suggests Ramsey has far better positioning and defensive awareness, while pogba's more clearances actually just show Utd defensive approach and his deep position when defending. So it's so so.

Let's just agree to disagree on the topic or we'll go on for pages.

 

[scytheavatar]

Pogba is basically the player Diaby would be if he achieved his max potential...... just like Diaby, Pogba has low football IQ and is good only as an unstoppable battering ram in midfield. But fact is if Pogba is to join us or Ramsey is to go to Utd, Pogba will start over Ramsey 100% of the time. Because that battering ram in midfield has a lot more value than being a striker wannabe in midfield.

 

[truth_hurts]

Ramsey is far more proven than Pogba imo and has shown up for club and country at crucial moments. Pogba is far more talented though. A fully fit Ramsey, with years on his contract is a 70m player imo.

 

[Tosker]

No way should we contemplate selling him

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Need to find a reason to lock this.

 

[Zaza]

Again - Give this guy 250k plus the armband. Jack can leave for all I care. We cannot afford to lose Aaron Ramsey.

 

[krengon]

 

[A_G]

£30m? Thank you for the FA Cup final winners and good luck.

 

[Preacher]

After Chelsea will sell Hazard, we should ask from them much more money for Ramsey.

 

[Fewtch]

After Chelsea will sell Hazard, we should ask from them much more money for Ramsey.

Nothing less than 35 imo

Edit: Didn’t we sell ox for 40 with a year left as well? Ramsey should go for at least 45 then

 

[GoonerJeeves]

I hope we can keep him. He will fit in well in the style Emery wants us to play. No way should we sell him to Chelsea...

 

[afcb]

swap for Bakayoko lol

 

[Beast Incarnate]

30 mil? He's worth at least 50, even with the contract issue.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Arsenal under Gazidis loves nothing more than selling players to our rival teams for cheap.