Alexander Isak

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Rasmi

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I just see a lot of bad decision making in him. He always drive straight into a crowd, when he should pass the ball to a teammate.

If he is a poacher type of striker (which I don’t like). Then it still make sense if he run with the ball directly forward and being selfish. Because he was level to the defenders most of the time and has space in front of him running into.

However, it seems he likes to drop deep to receive the ball. If that’s the case, you can’t run straight forward into a bunch of defenders in front of you. You should make good combination play with your teammates.
he has attributes that stand out more. His height, pace and ability to get a shot out is exceptional. Like i said I dont think the 3 players you showed could score 17 goals in la liga and none of them being pen. again in the spain match torres and Laporte he gave them more problems than our strikers have given those 2.
 

yorch44

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If we're being fair, he plays in a much better league than those guys. 😁
To be fair he looks pretty good... Don't look the goals... Always look how the player puts himself, the movements, how he receive the ball. He is good on that. He looks very complete, good un air, has pace and technical ability, obviously not TH levels but he has similar movements from the left wing. He is very young si he has a lot to upgrade but a very top ceiling.

I would be happy with him to be honest.
 

Football Manager

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he has attributes that stand out more. His height, pace and ability to get a shot out is exceptional. Like i said I dont think the 3 players you showed could score 17 goals in la liga and none of them being pen. again in the spain match torres and Laporte he gave them more problems than our strikers have given those 2.
I’m not talking about goals.

Poachers can score a lot...Auba, Inzaghi...but they are liability to the team. They do nothing in a match and wait for the few supply happen a few times in a 90 mins match. They are not helping in the build up, as a result the team create less, and the team score less. Their individual goals are trade offs to the team’s performance.

Great strikers are not only about the goals, they are also about helping in the build up, so that the team will create a lot more chances, and score a lot more goals. Bergkamp, Henry, Firmino, Suarez, Benzema, Van Persie, Sanchez. They score a fair amount but most importantly, they make the team better because they contribute a lot more than just scoring.
 

Rasmi

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I’m not talking about goals.

Poachers can score a lot...Auba, Inzaghi...but they are liability to the team. They do nothing in a match and wait for the few supply happen a few times in a 90 mins match. Which means they are incapable to help in the build up, the team create less, and the team score less. Their individual goals are trade offs to the team’s performance.

Great strikers are not only about the goals, they are also about helping in the build up, so that the team will create a lot more chances, and score a lot more goals. Bergkamp, Henry, Firmino, Suarez, Benzema, Van Persie. They score a fair amount but most importantly, they make the team better because they contribute a lot more than just scoring.
Two great scorers. In an ideal world I would take a complete striker. But I also would take an Inzaghi/Auba ahead of frimino type of player any day of the weak. Scoring goals is the nr 1 thing a striker should be judged on. I feel like we are in a time where we focus on having as much complete player everywhere that we are building up jack of all trades master of none type of players
 

yorch44

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I’m not talking about goals.

Poachers can score a lot...Auba, Inzaghi...but they are liability to the team. They do nothing in a match and wait for the few supply happen a few times in a 90 mins match. They are not helping in the build up, as a result the team create less, and the team score less. Their individual goals are trade offs to the team’s performance.

Great strikers are not only about the goals, they are also about helping in the build up, so that the team will create a lot more chances, and score a lot more goals. Bergkamp, Henry, Firmino, Suarez, Benzema, Van Persie, Sanchez. They score a fair amount but most importantly, they make the team better because they contribute a lot more than just scoring.
If You watched played he is not a poacher. Yes he is still raw in some aspects but he is very young. A poacher does not carry the ball the way he does. Actually Odduard is more likely a poacher. And to be honest the way Bumteta plays needs a poacher but a good one in the air. Because he plays Cross FC so laca and auba are not the Best options for it.
 

Football Manager

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Two great scorers. In an ideal world I would take a complete striker. But I also would take an Inzaghi/Auba ahead of frimino type of player any day of the weak. Scoring goals is the nr 1 thing a striker should be judged on. I feel like we are in a time where we focus on having as much complete player everywhere that we are building up jack of all trades master of none type of players
Did you actually read the reason why they make the team worse, and why they would make the team score less than they should have?
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
If You watched played he is not a poacher. Yes he is still raw in some aspects but he is very young. A poacher does not carry the ball the way he does. Actually Odduard is more likely a poacher. And to be honest the way Bumteta plays needs a poacher but a good one in the air. Because he plays Cross FC so laca and auba are not the Best options for it.

Completely agree. Isak is much much more than a poacher. He's a new age CF, excellent technical ability for his height.
 

Football Manager

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If You watched played he is not a poacher. Yes he is still raw in some aspects but he is very young. A poacher does not carry the ball the way he does. Actually Odduard is more likely a poacher. And to be honest the way Bumteta plays needs a poacher but a good one in the air. Because he plays Cross FC so laca and auba are not the Best options for it.
I said he is not a poacher in my post:
I just see a lot of bad decision making in him. He always drive straight into a crowd, when he should pass the ball to a teammate.

If he is a poacher type of striker (which I don’t like). Then it still make sense if he run with the ball directly forward and being selfish. Because he was level to the defenders most of the time and has space in front of him running into.

However, it seems he likes to drop deep to receive the ball. If that’s the case, you can’t run straight forward into a bunch of defenders in front of you. You should make good combination play with your teammates.
 

yorch44

Well-Known Member
Two great scorers. In an ideal world I would take a complete striker. But I also would take an Inzaghi/Auba ahead of frimino type of player any day of the weak. Scoring goals is the nr 1 thing a striker should be judged on. I feel like we are in a time where we focus on having as much complete player everywhere that we are building up jack of all trades master of none type of players
You take firminho if You have wide forward scorers like Mbappe, Salah, Mane, Griezmann, etc. It depends how You set your team.
 

Rasmi

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Did you actually read the reason why they make the team worse, and why they would make the team score less than they should have?
I feel like you are painting wrong pictures. I dont see him as an inzaghi player nor do i see the other players you mentioned as van persie/bergkamp type of players. He is a very good player and he is involved in the build up play a lot. But let me ask you this. Would you take Inzaghi or Auba ahead of frimino?
 

Football Manager

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You take firminho if You have wide forward scorers like Mbappe, Salah, Mane, Griezmann, etc. It depends how You set your team.
And these players you mentioned are creative player, elite passer and skillful on the ball. They also help a lot in the build up. I can’t stand players “specialised” (limited, one dimensional) on one thing and wait for a moment to do their thing. Contributing nothing for the 8x mins. Which makes the team so much worse off, unable to create chances, and hugely reduced the goals that the team could have scored.
 
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Football Manager

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I feel like you are painting wrong pictures. I dont see him as an inzaghi player nor do i see the other players you mentioned as van persie/bergkamp type of players. He is a very good player and he is involved in the build up play a lot. But let me ask you this. Would you take Inzaghi or Auba ahead of frimino?
No.

Hate the signing of Auba from day 1. Give me my van persie back.
 

Rasmi

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No.

Hate the signing of Auba from day 1. Give me my van persie back.
Ok i think of the 4 guys you posted I would take Isak easily. I think he is better, has done it at higher level and has more potential. All I know is as a Swede if isak played for celtic he would score 35 league goals in that league
 

yorch44

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And these players you mentioned are creative player, elite passer and skillful on the ball. They also help a lot in the build up.
I mentioned those players because they make the CF to take a completly support role instead of goalscoring. There are two ways of playing and ir depends of what players You have.

1. Play for your central striker. It works if You have a super goalscorer. With this way playing with a creative behind him is better.

2. Play for your wide strikers/ wingers. The CF supports them to score. It works if You have better players at the flanks. This way You usually play 433 because the CF goes deep like a cam and it ends like a 4312.

So firminho is not better than halland or the other way. Is just different ways of playing football with different types of players.
 

Football Manager

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Ok i think of the 4 guys you posted I would take Isak easily. I think he is better, has done it at higher level and has more potential. All I know is as a Swede if isak played for celtic he would score 35 league goals in that league
Just watch again, and compare the decision making on the second they receive the ball. And what they can do with the ball.
 

yorch44

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Just watch again, and compare the decision making on the second they receive the ball. And what they can do with the ball.
I watch them... I ser isaak is more vertical and looks for the goal more. Thats not Bad. If You want a CF that plays a CAM support role thats your personal opinion. But Isak is very good un terms of football Quality.
 

Football Manager

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I mentioned those players because they make the CF to take a completly support role instead of goalscoring. There are two ways of playing and ir depends of what players You have.

1. Play for your central striker. It works if You have a super goalscorer. With this way playing with a creative behind him is better.

2. Play for your wide strikers/ wingers. The CF supports them to score. It works if You have better players at the flanks. This way You usually play 433 because the CF goes deep like a cam and it ends like a 4312.

So firminho is not better than halland or the other way. Is just different ways of playing football with different types of players.
Of course I understand what you mean.

My point is, Firmino is not creating for the other “wide strikers”, and the “wide strikers” job is to score. Because the “wide strikers” are also creative players. They are actually creating for each other. They are all creating, and they are all creating for the team. Which is good.
 

Rasmi

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Just watch again, and compare the decision making on the second they receive the ball. And what they can do with the ball.
I watched isak since his Aik days mate. I watched him play for the national team.....hell I watched some of his games in holland. I am a fan of the boy. as @yorch44 said....he is more direct. If we played Real Socidad instead of villareal in the Europa you would see hopw he would have killed us. He is actually a level above the guys you posted
 

Football Manager

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For example, we have 5 attackers against a block of 5 defenders.

With a limited goal scorer in the team (Auba), we will be one man down in the build up. We now have 4 creative plays against 5 defenders.

And with one more limited player in the team (Özil, who disappears in the build up most of the time, and only shows up when a final pass is needed), we are 3 v 5 in the build up.

And because of this, you are not able to create chances (quality-wise and quantity-wise). You are also more likely to lose possession to the opponent, because you have a numerical disadvantage. Now the opponent have more of the ball. You lost even more control and create even less chances. You can only play ugly defensive football now and hope for the counter attacks.

That was exactly the reason why we have declined so much. We lost so many talented creative players (Nasri, Fabregas, rosicky, Hleb, Arshavin, Van Persie, Cazorla, Sanchez....we have fewer and fewer of these players over the years) and replaced them with limited one-dimensional players.

You can bring up the individual player stats as much as you wanted. But these players make their team worse. The team stats are getting worse and worse because of them. We can’t have anymore of these one-dimensional players in our team.
 
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Rasmi

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For example, we have 5 attackers against a block of 5 defenders.

With a limited goal scorer in the team (Auba), we will be one man down in the build up. We now have 4 creative plays against 5 defenders.

And with one more limited player in the team (Özil, who disappears in the build up most of the time, and only shows up when a final pass is needed), we are 3 v 5 in the build up.

And because of this, you are not able to create chances (quality-wise and quantity-wise). You are also more likely to lose possession to the opponent, because you have a numerical disadvantage. Now the opponent have more of the ball. You lost even more control and create even less chances. You can only play ugly defensive football now and hope for counter attacks.

That was exactly the reason why we have declined so much. We lost talented creative players (Nasri, Fabregas, rosicky, Hleb, Arshavin, Van Persie, Cazorla, Sanchez....we have fewer and fewer of these players over the years) and replaced them with limited one-dimensional players.
So Auba cant even make a pass or receive a ball and control it. This black and white painting of team build up is crazy. You either great at or cant do anything. Auba has been one of the best strikers in the last decade in club football and his stats speaks for themselves. To reduce him to a player who cant contribute nothing to build up is an insult to him. The mistake you are making is you are trying to rationalize football in every step. There are more great flawed played players. Flawed doesnt mean non existent. Walcott for example when he was with was used to produce better stats than many overall more talented players. But he had couple of standout attributes that were game changers.
 
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