Arsenal in for Van

[Adam]

13 Million Pounds is the more likely fee (20 Milion Euros).

If Arsène saves up and sells - then this is a realistic amount to pay for Reyes.

Whether it is needed to be spent needs clarifying. Whilst we are caught up in the romance of transfers in this January window - we have disregarded the other factors which affect Arsène's thinking.

I am a firm believer in some of these offensive youngsters - In Smith, Bentley, Aliadiere, Jerome Thomas, Pennant, Quincy, Stokes, and Clichy (potential LM) we have fantastic attacking options.

I am also a firm believer that they won't be instantly capable of covering for us for at least another 1/2 years - which is the dilemma.

If Bergkamp, Wiltord and Jeffers leave - we will definitely need one new CF.

Henry, New CF, Kanu, Aliadiere, Bentley. (Quincy thereafter)

Whatever happens - conventionally you need at least 3 established strikers - with two potentials fighting it out for the 4th spot.

It wouldn't be Arsène to buy two strikers unless Kanu leaves aswell; it would contradict the faith he has in the youngsters.

There is the chance that Wenger will use Pires as a striker spot in the years to come when he is not as physically able as a LM.

 

[lewdikris]

... hence the possible purchase of Reyes/Van Persie who could do both.

... and I think - given the number of different sources who've stated it, many of whom are pretty dependable - that it'll be Kluivert and not Kanu in that list next season.

Straight swap with Gio....

 

[n_henry]

Yeah...I'm believing the Kluivert talk more and more...

 

[Adam]

For next season:

Henry, Kluivert, Reyes/RVP, Aliadiere, Bentley.

I'd prefer it if Reyes was more Joaquin in a sense; that is, more right sided.

If Kluivert came - i wonder how he would link up with Freddie. I'd suspect Kluivert would link up with Ljungberg and would push forward into the box.

He might cover similar space to Freddie, or he might just be told to be a Dennis Bergkamp whose natural instincts are to get into the box aswell.

Either way - i hope he does not make similar runs. Freddie has pretty much been our right sided box player, but has had more joy down the left as Bergkamp angles his passes better from right to left, and, of course - we are dominantly a left sided team.

Does Kluivert have the creative ability - the vision, the execution of a pass and the economy to function in Wengerball and it's counter attacks? That's interesting. He's used to a slower Spanish football; i'd like to see how he would orchestrate a counter attack. I'd also want to see his positioning fairly disciplined whilst all the other players movement is fluid.

I'd like to see him get back to his Ajax days predominantly but also show the abilities he has gained from playing deeper at the same time. Too much to ask?

I still think if we are to replace Bergkamp we need a player who can be collective and shape defining. A spinal player who can make us get back to our full flowing team goals which Bergkamp orchestrates. Nowadays there is too much emphasis on the individual impetus, rather than the collective team style which existed. That's why we all KNOW we are yet to hit peak Wengerball form.

Thierry Henry cannot be relied upon as a disciplined spinal player who defines the shape and pattern of play as he has so much movement in him and he drifts out to the left.

We need that exceptional movement of his, while we also need another player who will utilise and make the most of his pace from the hole as Bergkamp has. Pires could do this with his vision and passing later on in his career if asked to hold the hole position.

Whatever happens; We don't want to see Freddie made redundant on that right hand side, and we want to see this new player make the most of the movement around him - predominantly Thierry's pace.

Thierry is a great supplier too and he will have oppurtunities to show this from the left, but i believe his movement is of more value to us when dictated by a player who will orchestrate things from the hole.

 

[lewdikris]

If Freddie became redundant ... we'd play Pennant, simply.

Buying new players you can't necessarily keep to some ideal shape - shape is player-defined, and if someone no longer measures up, they go...

 

[Adam]

I'd argue that what makes Wengerball special is that it isn't neccesarily defined by players but by Arsène's ideas on the way he wants to play football.

Manchester United have a less defined idea of a style of football than what Wengerball is - they are more likely to allow players to define their style.

Wenger buys and shapes individuals to play the way he wants, in his style and team.

The Wengerball shape needs a central playmaker ala Bergkamp, Hoddle etc

 

[lewdikris]

None of our best performances THIS season have featured Bergkamp, or if they have BErgy hasn't been a major part of them - cept maybe Birmingham, which were pure counterattack goals of a type we don't get away with too often anymore.

There's a 'new' Arsenal this year. Much better in defence. And starting attacks much higher up the field. Which is largely to do with Toure, and latterly Cygan, bringing the ball out of the defence, enabling Vieira and the attackers to start their moves higher up the pitch ... which reduces the need for a deep lying playmaker of the Bergy/Hoddle type. Hence a left-footed dribbler/Kluivert type goes along with that: they can be part of those moves, rather than being bypassed by them, as Bergkamp and Kanu largely are...

 

[Anders Limpar]

To compare Ljungberg with Pennat is what? Ignorant at least...

 

[lewdikris]

Er, who did it?

And even if they did - why? They both play right midfield..... very different types of player, but so what?

 

[Adam]

The Bergkamp style is more a proven pattern offensively. The emphasis on defensive stability and distribution through Kolo and Cygan this season explains the evolution well, and the fact that we haven't been playing the old conventional Wengerball up front.

Our best performances have been largely defensive.

Except Fulham at home which although without end product was highly fluent and collective. Is it our counter attacks being sussed or a lack of form from the bypassed Bergkamp?

We are more individual without a Bergkamp. Emphasis on a players individual run and skill, rather than the collective build up of yesteryear.

We are currently bypassing Bergkamp who now sees less of the ball than ever before. Individual skill, rather than a typical Wengerball build up is seen.

To reproduce the moves more easily - a Bergkamp sets a pattern of play and understanding between players. Having alot of dribblers (another left sided one) would neglect the right and the economy and speed of Wengerball - the philosophy of limited touches and a few concise passes.

We are winning, but not at our peak. I am not complaining at all while this is the case but i would like to bring light upon our evolution away from that collective style without Bergkamp.

The new signing Wenger makes might work to improve our offensive collectivity. While Thierry can do it, he's not spinal as Pires isn't, and we wan't to utilise their movement along with Ljungbergs. I believe that Bergkamp once pulled their strings, and helped to keep the understanding and shape through his disciplined position.

Afterall - he is the only one he keeps to the position he is playing!

What can i say - poor old Freddie!

 

[GlasgowGooner]

found some video clips on him not sure how good they are though.

http://www.feyenoord.nl/online/eng/fram ... ex_ie.html
the click on "Players HomePage"

 

[n_henry]

found some video clips on him not sure how good they are though.

http://www.feyenoord.nl/online/eng/fram ... ex_ie.html
the click on "Players HomePage"

Thanks.

Hmm...he seems keen to come to us. 8)

 

[pamilih]

I saw him last night on channel 5 against RKC. He was substituted at 70th minute or so. Looks good but does not impress me too much.

He runs more like Henry but without the pace...

Hmm ... I don't know ....

 

[lewdikris]

Not sure last night was a very good indication really. Feyenoord were uniformly dreadful. Appalling - they barely generated one good pass, let alone attack all match. There's big problems at that club...

He does have a touch of the Henry's about him though... very delicate touch on the ball.

 

[thegame24]

wasnt that match from last season?

thats what the tv guide said.

 

[lewdikris]

Think it was just before the winter break - commentator was talking about how bad Feyenoord were doing, and they're well adrift in fourth this year.

 

[reggiepaul]

Yeah, otherwise i'd have been saying for years that Steven Sidwell was the new Pele.

Just as a (good) manager wouldn't spend 20 million on a player unrealistically, so a good fan would have to make their own decision as to whether that 20 million was well spent.

JGooner, reasonably, has his doubts.

20 million is a lot of money no doubts there but your doubts have to footballing doubts not born of one's own perceptions of reality. If we're going to throw around blunt and harsh statements against a persons background and deem them "acceptable" and "reasonable" we may as well avoid contact with any player and apply negation to every player that exists.

I have no problem at all with someone having doubts about paying over the price for a player who is not worth that amount but throwing around stupid statements that attacks a persons background and also attacks exactly the persons life and character when you've never met or come across him - is not reasonable but simply self gratifying and self congratulatory.

Steven Sidwell is not the next pele - no. What I said is based upon the praise that a player receives. Reyes and Eto'o have received lots of commendation and praise from most if not all people who have seen them play - let's hope for the best and hope they will do something good for football, but come on, someone explain to me why does questioning someones character and attacking them become reasonable? It doesn't and never well other than in someones imagination and those that prefer to think - hey, it's ok.

The same way you wouldn't appreciate someone doing it to you, the same way you shouldn't do it to someone else.

Reasonable - my arse.

 

[Sammer]

Reggiepaul,

is the guy in your Avatar "Jeff Buckley" by any chance?

 

[reggiepaul]

Reggiepaul,

is the guy in your Avatar "Jeff Buckley" by any chance?

Yup .

 

[lewdikris]

Football players are human beings, and prone to all the same crises as anyone else.

Consider the examples:

Stan Collymore - great talent, fell apart on the big stage due to the combination of his own temperament, partly explained by the well-documented problems in his BACKGROUND which bled into his personal life.

Gazza + George Best - ENORMOUS talents. Careers both fell apart due to their off-pitch lives, and drink problems which are partly to do with their personal BACKGROUNDS.

Nicolas Anelka - Early career a temperamental mess due to influence of his BROTHERS and their effect on his decisions. Still a moody git, but less so now that he's free of them.

Ian Wright - Awesome player whose international career was probably effected by the psychological effects of not turning pro til very late in comparison with his peers. That is an effect of his BACKGROUND on his playing life.

El Hadji Diouf - almost got kicked out of Lens AND the Senegal squad because of the effect of his unusual religious beliefs (largely his fondness for witch doctors) on his playing life. Which is part of his BACKGROUND.


Are we noticing a trend here? Some players, like some people see their careers suffer because of the circumstances of their lives. JGooner never, at any stage, criticised Reyes' background, only mentioned that it is something to be considered. He thinks it could have an effect on his immediate chances of prospering at Arsenal as a 20 year old - still very very young. Similarly, many have wondered how Wayne Rooney would prosper if he was taken away from the stable life he has known in Toxteth to Chelsea (or some big metropolitan club) if they bought him.

Christ - Damien Duff, who's a pretty stable guy, was terrified of moving to London. MOST people who move to London find it strange initially - it's a big bastard of a place - and extremely different from Seville. And no amount of money can hide that.

Stop misreading others intentions in their comments!