Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[Preacher]

If we're going to measure his performance, shouldn't it be for the standard he set for himself?

Didn't you hear. We should never take his words at face value, especially if it negatively catches up to him.

 

[pacstud]

Don't kid yourself. What you're seeing here is a paid club apologist, not a true Wenger fan. Those went the way of the Dodo.

Thought you looked familiar

 

[Makingtrax]

If we're going to measure his performance, shouldn't it be for the standard he set for himself?

Why? There's an overall record:
Time in charge: 22 years
Overall spend: 4th in the league
Av finishing position 2.74
Trophies: 10
Av Win rate: 58%

This year things have nose dived by his own excellent standards, he's 68 and the fans have been whipped up into a hate filled frenzy. He's got to go for everybody's sake.

But when he's gone and the rage has died down, sane people will look at that record and see it for what it is . . the best Arsenal manager ever and probably the second best performance of any manger to grace the English football world and certainly the most consistent.

There's no such thing as a Wenger apologist, just people who can accept cold hard facts and refuse to get swayed by the narrative of the pundits, journos and frustrated.

 

[rich 1990]

I don't know how AM mods control themselves sometimes. The temptation to ban people on a daily basis would overwhelm me.

 

[dashsnow17]

I don't know how AM mods control themselves sometimes. The temptation to ban people on a daily basis would overwhelm me.

This is A-M, ot Chia. You ca't just ba aythig you do't like, we have higher stadards tha that.

 

[rich 1990]

This is A-M, ot Chia. You ca't just ba aythig you do't like, we have higher stadards tha that.

You'd be first to go.

 

[IslingtonBornandbred]

Take the amount of goals Thierry Henry scored over his Arsenal career. If you add an extra 11 or so imaginary years to take us up to this point and imagine he was playing for us during this spell and didn't score a single goal. Over his Arsenal career and his additional 11 pretend years where he didn't score a goal, his average season goal return would be 20 goals a season across his whole career (the real years and the zero goal years).

Pretty good for someone who didn't score for 11 years. Doesn't mean Thierry Henry should be starting up front for us.

Edit: Mr Trax. I put you on the ignore list but then couldn't bare to be away from your posts so I had to unignore you. Your opinion that it's a positive... beating City by XG in a game that we were totally embarrassed in and didn't turn up is quite frankly bordering on psychotic but expected.

 

[dashsnow17]

You'd be first to go.

o, I caot be sileced.

 

[dashsnow17]

Take the amount of goals Thierry Henry scored over his Arsenal career. If you add an extra 11 or so imaginary years to take us up to this point and imagine he was playing for us during this spell and didn't score a single goal. Over his Arsenal career and his additional 11 pretend years where he didn't score a goal, his average season goal return would be 20 goals a season across his whole career (the real years and the zero goal years).

Doesn't mean Thierry Henry should be starting up front for us

To be fair Saido Berahino still starts for Stoke.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

While i agree on alot of the things you say, i feel like you missed my point.. the whole point of the original post was that Guardiola has been given practically unlimited funds in a really short timeframe.

Give the same ridiculous amount of money to any top6 manager in the league and i'd argue they could challenge for the title as well.

Maybe but Mourinhos spent more on individual players and has had a similar amount of spend and he hasnt looked anywhere near catching Peps team yet. He looks more likely to lose the dressing room or get the sack in fact such is Peps superiority over him but I dislike Mourinho more simply because of the style of football he prescribes and just his pond life attitude to people.
I cant dislike Pep Guardiola personally, he works with what he has available to him. It just so happens hes done well everywhere hes gone AND played good football AND won hearts and minds so far to boot + hes the de rigueur manager of the moment much like Wenger once was (god knows how long ago) and Mourinho was as well. The difference is he used to play football as well and very very well too and has made a remarkable transition to managing, a man to admire.
There's challenging and challenging, Mourinho has a similar amount of money at a bigger club and hasnt "challenged" and hes played god awful football to boot whilst stinking the place out, so you wont see me hating on Guardiola just yet. My ex boss "wa**er" is a city fan though so would love to see them blow the title this year just for laughs!!!
If the question is could Guardiola come in and make Arsenal title challengers, give him a seasons grace like Wenger had and I think he would regardless of funds.

 

[A_G]

Why? There's an overall record:
Time in charge: 22 years
Overall spend: 4th in the league
Av finishing position 2.74
Trophies: 10
Av Win rate: 58%

This year things have nose dived by his own excellent standards, he's 68 and the fans have been whipped up into a hate filled frenzy. He's got to go for everybody's sake.

But when he's gone and the rage has died down, sane people will look at that record and see it for what it is . . the best Arsenal manager ever and probably the second best performance of any manger to grace the English football world and certainly the most consistent.

Everyone in sport has a shelf life. We can't let past performances effect how we judge the present. Even though it's more applicable to players, it also applies to managers. Nobody is trying to dispute Wenger's record over the years, but the club has been on a downward trajectory in the league in the last 2 seasons, which can arguably be traced back to the collapse in the second half of the 15/16 season. Good performances in the Cups is a feather in his cap of course, but ultimately Wenger has judged his own performance on the league.

There's no such thing as a Wenger apologist, just people who can accept cold hard facts and refuse to get swayed by the narrative of the pundits, journos and frustrated.

I never called you an apologist. I used to defend Wenger quite strongly, funnily enough the work he did between 2006-2013 made it possible to consider 3 FA Cups in 4 years relative underachievement.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

While i agree on alot of the things you say, i feel like you missed my point.. the whole point of the original post was that Guardiola has been given practically unlimited funds in a really short timeframe.

Give the same ridiculous amount of money to any top6 manager in the league and i'd argue they could challenge for the title as well.

So sorry also it really depends on how far you stretch the "could" as its already been shown with United its not just about the money spent. The difference with Pep to Mourinho is he has a philosophy which is working at the club hes at and people seem to buy into it, why wouldnt they at City when they used to literally be a joke club (remember the kevin keegan sketch on harry enfield).
Mourinho doesnt. Seriously do you think anyone at Man U actually buys into how Mourinho wants the team to play? Hes just there for winnings sake and its not enough, more is needed for such a big club, just like at Arsenal.
There's so many more factors to football than just money but I've said it before its also a simple game, we are so mixed up as a club and our relationship with money and its no wonder some fans are a bit confused and think this is about the ftse 100 and nett profit for the shareholders. Then they presumably happily pay to go and watch the turd dished up against the legendary teams of Ostersund, Bournemouth and Nottingham Forest. That certainly stinks of troll (and turd) to me.
Its not helped by the way the owners and board do things and communicate things and its not helped by the managers "philosophy" of trying to do everything from a position of supposed pennyless underdog. This is very confusing actually to me as well, as Wenger says at the start of every year the aim is to challenge for the title yet we never do and always seem to be making profit for the shareholders. Yet he is the only constant and claims to be this great footballing man and moral authority on the game. Im not sure he is there to represent the fans so its no bl**dy surprise the fans are upset, if anything Wenger is the one with the holier than thou complex not Guardiola......

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

What the Board, expectedly, fails to understand is not that the fans have an issue with our spending - we did spend a substantial amount of money on many players over the last couple of seasons.

It's the very fact that the man who has a say regarding transfers, cannot get the best out of his players anymore, and that that's the one area that needs improving.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

What the Board, expectedly, fails to understand is not that the fans have an issue with our spending - we did spend a substantial amount of money on many players over the last couple of seasons.

It's the very fact that the man who has a say regarding transfers, cannot get the best out of his players anymore, and that that's the one area that needs improving.

And wont spend a penny on defensive midfielder I'll add to that or a minute on a defensive game plan either seemingly, even though we've been crying out for improvement for years. Just one midget/weakling offensive midfielder who can pass after another for as long as I can remember and now finally a couple of world class strikers in the last two windows but both are a fat lot of good if we a: cant defend and b: dont have a holding midfielder who can break up play in our half of the pitch and get the ball out to them early and give them space to run into whilst the other team dont have 11 men behind the ball.

 

[Rimaal]

Thought you looked familiar

Given your profile picture, I'm not surprised by your razor insight, Freddie.

 

[pacstud]

Given your profile picture, I'm not surprised by your razor insight, Freddie.

Did your statement deserve more?

Is this the part where I call you "lad" or "son"? Can I sarcastically describe your intellect, or lack thereof? Perhaps you should invite me to a bar where you will "see if I say it to your face"?

Come now, you can't in any serious form consider it plausible that Arsenal pays people to post on a ****in' message board? That is either stupidity or paranoia.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Cheers.

 

[Rimaal]

Did your statement deserve more?

Is this the part where I call you "lad" or "son"? Can I sarcastically describe your intellect, or lack thereof? Perhaps you should invite me to a bar where you will "see if I say it to your face"?

Come now, you can't in any serious form consider it plausible that Arsenal pays people to post on a ****in' message board? That is either stupidity or paranoia.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Cheers.

Keep your benefits for one who needs or at least wants them.

 

[mavelous]

Oh come on now, it's a message board, no need to get up personal or try to be overly cute, respect others' opinions.

On the other hand, you can't reject anything just out of hand these days, in a world where donald trump becomes the most powerful man on the planet, where manmade objects can travel to the outer edges of our solar system and send back photographs of alien objects, where people inject petrochemical products under their lips and around their eyes to beat age. in short, if you can think it, it's possible.

just as a thought exercise, what's the main objective of the PR team of the club? just a brainstorm, nothing on good authority or any comprehensive list:
- monitor the overall statistics of fanbase - demographics, geography and relative density, income and habits
- platforms of fan discussion and engagement - INTERNET INTERNET INTERNET, and then sports bars, family and work circles, and finally matchday stadiums, club events.
- try to gauge the reaction of fanbase to various events and the elasticity of demand. how much do season ticket waiting lists and merchandise purchases fluctuate with various events (results, transfers, public statements of club figures, or just seasonality).

then there are the million dollar questions -

What is the likelihood that we will lose competitive edge and lose out on new generation of fans due to certain events or series of outcomes? what is the media and overall football community consensus on our style, attractivenees, prospects, etc.


in the context of the above, a few quid here and there would even justify itself as a simple experiment or a novelty project by our NFL-imported gurus that want to play with some parameters, or introduce other variables and see how one portal of fan discussion evolves.


TLR - make love, not war. no need to look down upon opinions of us mere mortals from the high pedestal of heavenly intelligence - for all we know, we could all be part of an alien teenager's dream.

 

[pacstud]

Keep your benefits for one who needs or at least wants them.

Fair enough.

I will eliminate "paranoia" from my list of explanations

 

[pacstud]

TLR -

So all that, or it's actually some guy's opinion?

Conspiracy is fun, just not very fruitful.

And yes, it's a message board so we all get to express ourselves. It should be pointed out that this doesn't mean the value of these expressions is equal. Quite the opposite really.