Ex-Gunner Watch

[SomGooner]

@future heroes,

You're implying that Cesc was a coward for putting his hand up when in truth all he did was try to be too clever and gain advantage for Arsenal by blocking the ball with his hand which unfortunately cost us against Sp**s.

I always thought that brave is the one who can control his anger and keep his emotions in check no matter what and not someone who abandons his troops by allowing his emotions get the better of him like Keane, Barton, Rooney, Gerrard and Vieira (I'm sorry Paddy).

Teams used to specifically target Cesc and used every dirty trick known to man just to get into his head and put him off and I've seen Lampard, Gerrard, Gattuso, Barton, Anderson among others try to kick him and bully him into submission but he wouldn't have none of it because Cesc was not only gifted footballer but very intelligent as well and was strong enough to resist the temptation to lash out when he could've easily done so.

The reason why I've called him a 'Warrior' is because of his never say die attitude which helped him win so many midfield battles so young against so many guys twice or even three times his size.

He's single handedly won us so many matches, important matches and for me the game against Villa (Sorry Stevo) in December 2009 stands out. A not fully fit Cesc came off the bench to win the match for us but unfortunately aggravated his not fully healed hammy in the process because that game was the turning point in our season and helped us gain the upper hand for the 4th place while planting the seed of doubt within the minds of the Villa players who ultimately bottled and finished 5th thanks to the grit and never-say-die attitude of #4.

You keep on saying that he's refused to play for Arsenal and I totally disagree for the simple fact that it's utterly beyond any logic for him to do that knowing what was at stake and why would he refuse to play and risk infuriating Arsenal FC thus jeopardising his dream move back home?

He said it himself in his first Barca press conference that he's left with Arsène's blessing and without him the move would've never materialised (Arsène caught heat on A-M for that), don't you think he would've annoyed Arsène if he'd refused to play?

Cesc (like all the players before him who played under Arsène) has a genuine love and respect for Arsène and he's gone on a record to say that Arsène is the greatest manager he's ever had and he couldn't say 'Bye' to him without crying, so why throw all that away by refusing to play for him even if not for Arsenal FC?

No Arsenal fan will ever be happy with the price Barca paid to get him however, I'd also like to believe that we're not naive enough to believe that Cesc was never going to go back home and would retire at Arsenal because he's always maintained that the ONLY club he'll ever play for after Arsenal were Barca and I'm sure everybody at Arsenal knew one day soon Barca will come knocking for him and they duly did.

I'm not going to blame Cesc for the fee Barca paid and if anything it's Arsenal's fault for putting themselves in that predicament in the first place, I'm sure Cesc would still be here today if he knew he had a chance of winning trophies at Arsenal.

Cesc is born Catalan but a naturalised Gooner.

 

[Uncle Mike]

I'm not going to blame Cesc for the fee Barca paid and if anything it's Arsenal's fault for putting themselves in that predicament in the first place, I'm sure Cesc would still be here today if he knew he had a chance of winning trophies at Arsenal.

Cesc is born Catalan but a naturalised Gooner.

He threw his Gooner citizenship away. If he didn't know that he had a chance of winning trophies at Arsenal, then it could only mean one of two things:

1. He isn't nearly as intelligent as you think he is, or

2. HE was the reason we didn't win them, because we were building a team around a moax.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Regarding Fabregas and Nasri it is fascinating to notice what behavior some people consider as the worst. Nasri left in a professional way. He respected his contract and was sold on an open market. The transfer fee gave Arsenal a fair chance to buy a replacement of a similar quality. After Nasri left, he's had a childish beef with some Arsenal supporters that are equally childish.

Nasri turned out to be a ****. But he's not a traitor.

 

[Dokaka]

Regarding Fabregas and Nasri it is fascinating to notice what behavior some people consider as the worst. Nasri left in a professional way. He respected his contract and was sold on an open market. The transfer fee gave Arsenal a fair chance to buy a replacement of a similar quality. After Nasri left, he's had a childish beef with some Arsenal supporters that are equally childish.

Nasri turned out to be a ****. But he's not a traitor.

He's a bigger traitor then Fabregas surely?

Was at Arsenal for a long time, and the SECOND he starts showing some ability, he leaves at the first sight of money.

Fabregas spend years at Arsenal playing at a very high level, but had to see countless of his teammates sold and replaced by inferior players. He also had to endure the whole "we can't afford anyone" thing and there were never any real quality brought in while he was the main man except for Arshavin.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Regarding Fabregas and Nasri it is fascinating to notice what behavior some people consider as the worst. Nasri left in a professional way. He respected his contract and was sold on an open market. The transfer fee gave Arsenal a fair chance to buy a replacement of a similar quality. After Nasri left, he's had a childish beef with some Arsenal supporters that are equally childish.

Nasri turned out to be a ****. But he's not a traitor.

He's a bigger traitor then Fabregas surely?

Was at Arsenal for a long time, and the SECOND he starts showing some ability, he leaves at the first sight of money.

Fabregas spend years at Arsenal playing at a very high level, but had to see countless of his teammates sold and replaced by inferior players. He also had to endure the whole "we can't afford anyone" thing and there were never any real quality brought in while he was the main man except for Arshavin.

Oh please. Inferior to Flamini? Inferior to Hleb? Face it, those guys weren't any damn good without Fabregas -- just like Nasri.

But Nasri, when healthy, had been pretty good... with Fabregas. I think, if Fabregas had stayed, there's a 50-50 chances Nasri would have as well.

 

[Dokaka]

Oh please. Inferior to Flamini? Inferior to Hleb? Face it, those guys weren't any damn good without Fabregas -- just like Nasri.

But Nasri, when healthy, had been pretty good... with Fabregas. I think, if Fabregas had stayed, there's a 50-50 chances Nasri would have as well.

No, inferior to Adebayor, inferior to Toure, inferior to Gilberto (although Fabregas wasn't really the main man yet), inferior to Gallas, inferior to Eduardo etc.

As I said, some of them came good, but the most improved one improved after Fabregas left. Adebayor was replaced by.. what, Bendtner, Chamakh and/or Park? Gilberto was replaced by Denilson, Gallas and Toure were replaced by Squillaci and Koscielny and so on.

Think it's harsh on Fabregas to say the team was build around him. Perhaps the types were build around him, but the quality certainly wasn't.

 

[SomGooner]

@Uncle Mike,

We all know and agree that 'The team was built around him' but how many of the said team were good enough to wear the prestigious colours of the mighty Arsenal? How many were good enough to help us challenge and win trophies? for the love of God they couldn't even beat Birmingham City to end our 6 year wait for a trophy without him.

future heroes wrote that against the big teams Cesc used to disappear but what he forgot to mention is that they used to mark him tightly and sometimes even used to double up on him because they knew if they manage to contain him then they'd have managed to contain Arsenal as he carried the most of our threat be it assisting or scoring.

We're all disappointed and hurt to see another world class talent leave the club but whose fault is that? stop looking at it from a fan's point of view and I guarantee you you'd have done the same thing as Cesc and Nasri did but the difference is Nasri disrespected Arsenal FC and it's millions of fans in his first press confrence while Cesc couldn't stop praising us and our club and still does at every opportunity.

Personally speaking, my biggest disappointment is that we've never had fully fit Cesc, Robin and Samir playing together for one full season otherwise things might have been different today.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Oh please. Inferior to Flamini? Inferior to Hleb? Face it, those guys weren't any damn good without Fabregas -- just like Nasri.

But Nasri, when healthy, had been pretty good... with Fabregas. I think, if Fabregas had stayed, there's a 50-50 chances Nasri would have as well.

No, inferior to Adebayor, inferior to Toure, inferior to Gilberto (although Fabregas wasn't really the main man yet), inferior to Gallas, inferior to Eduardo etc.

As I said, some of them came good, but the most improved one improved after Fabregas left. Adebayor was replaced by.. what, Bendtner, Chamakh and/or Park? Gilberto was replaced by Denilson, Gallas and Toure were replaced by Squillaci and Koscielny and so on.

Think it's harsh on Fabregas to say the team was build around him. Perhaps the types were build around him, but the quality certainly wasn't.

I'll give you Gilberto, he had at least 2 good years left and could have made a difference. But Adebayor and Gallas had to go, they were problems beyond their on-pitch performance. Eduardo's problem was from the neck up, sad but he had to go, too, he wasn't going to get any better with us. Kolo was already in decline when he left, I don't fault him or Arsène for the separation.

 

[Uncle Mike]

@Uncle Mike,

We all know and agree that 'The team was built around him' but how many of the said team were good enough to wear the prestigious colours of the mighty Arsenal? How many were good enough to help us challenge and win trophies? for the love of God they couldn't even beat Birmingham City to end our 6 year wait for a trophy without him.

future heroes wrote that against the big teams Cesc used to disappear but what he forgot to mention is that they used to mark him tightly and sometimes even used to double up on him because they knew if they manage to contain him then they'd have managed to contain Arsenal as he carried the most of our threat be it assisting or scoring.

We're all disappointed and hurt to see another world class talent leave the club but whose fault is that?

His. He could have respected his contract, his manager, and his fans. But he wanted what he wanted and he didn't give a damn how he achieved it. I give him credit for placing a principle over money, but that principle stabbed us in the back, right through the heart.

 

[viper_001]

Anders Limpar reminiscing about his days with George Graham

Anders Limpar has said that playing for George Graham at Arsenal was like "living in Iraq under Saddam [Hussein]". The former Gunners player, who won five trophies during four years in north London, including the league title in 1991, added that the Scotsman did not even shake his hand after telling him he would not be offered a new contract.

"George Graham's regime was like living in Iraq under Saddam [Hussein]," Limpar told Aftonbladet TV. "He was disgusting. You would turn up for training one day and he would call [one player] into his "room", although it wasn't a room because everyone could hear what he was saying. Then he [Graham] would say: 'I have sold you to Leeds.' So the player replies: 'I don't want to join Leeds.' Graham then says: 'Well, you just have to pack your bag and leave.'

"What a swine. I have never seen a guy like that [player]. Tears running down his cheeks. Had been at Arsenal since he was 16. I think it was Leeds he was sold to."

Limpar joined the Gunners from Cremonese in 1990 and scored 20 goals in 116 appearances. He became a fans' favourite at Highbury and scored a goal from 40 yards against Liverpool in 1992. However, in 1994, Graham decided to let Limpar go and the Swede is scathing about how the manager handled the situation.

"He sold me in April with my contract running out in May," Limpar said. "No talk of extending the contract, just 'bye bye'. I said: 'I would like to carry on playing for Arsenal and sign a new deal', to which he replied: 'No you are not."

"So I said: 'But I've won so many titles in four years for you, is that not enough?' So we went in to his office and I had my agent with me and Graham is talking and says: 'I have a really good offer from Manchester City so you are going there.'

"So I realised that I was leaving the club, extended my hand to shake his hand and said: 'Well, thanks for four years then.' And then he just swivelled round on his chair and stared into the wall. So after four years he did not even shake my hand. We started driving towards Manchester but then we had a phone call from Everton, spoke to them and joined Everton in the end."

Limpar, who won the FA Cup with Everton in 1995 and played for Birmingham City, Colorado Rapids and several clubs in Sweden before retiring in March 2001, was also asked whether he had met Graham since leaving Arsenal. "Have I met Graham afterwards?" he said. "Several times. He is his usual self, arrogant."

George Graham was a bit before my time, so all I really know of him are highlight reels. Was he really that bad, or is Limpar just being bitter? :shock:

 

[Dokaka]

That sounds downright terrible. If that is true, he was either a despicable person or just handled situations like that terribly.

Would never work under someone like that.

 

[ArsenesNO1Fan]

I think we need some older gunners to shed some light on that, but it does sound unbelievable and more like a cartoon character

 

[outlaw_member]

Why would it be unbelievable? You never really know how managers or players or anyone really is behind the scenes. Everything you see in the spotlight is a facade. You get basterds in all walks of life, so why wouldn't there be any in football? Graham was the boss, and anyone who works in your typical hierarchy set-up can usually attest to a ************ of a manager. I'm not saying that any of what Limpar has stated was true or false, and there's no-one who can really verify or reject those statements other than the people who were directly involved with Graham on a daily basis. Ultimately, Graham was a disciplinarian.

I just come across this.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/football-banter/3pm/George-Graham-blew-top-at-player-who-blew-off-article84469.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion ... 84469.html</a>

 

[Wouterus]

It could very well be true, but it's still quite inappropriate to compare Graham to Saddam Hussein.

 

[Uncle Mike]

George Graham was a bit before my time, so all I really know of him are highlight reels. Was he really that bad, or is Limpar just being bitter? :shock:

He had a reputation of being a bit harsh and gruff. But even if every word Limpar is saying is true, that hardly makes him "Saddam Hussein." Or, as Gene Hunt put it, "I am not a tyrant! I am a dictator. There is a difference."

Wenger could use a little of that. Just a little.

Limpar could be telling the truth. The player who had been at Arsenal since he was 16, and was sold to Leeds, could well be David Rocastle, who was let go without much reason, as he was still a fantastic player in 1992, and was held in very high esteem by his ex-teammates even before anyone had any idea that he would die at age 33.

On the other hand, Limpar would be forgotten today if Graham hadn't brought him to Arsenal. And, really, he had just one good season -- although it was one of the best seasons any Arsenal attackers ever had, and essentially turned a dogfight for the 1990-91 title into a runaway title for Arsenal. To say he "won 5 trophies in 4 years" is wrong: The team won 3 while he was on the books, as he arrived in 1990 and was sold a few weeks before the '94 Cup Winners' Cup Final, and didn't play in the '93 League Cup Final, the '93 FA Cup Final, or the replay of the preceding.

It seems to me that each of these men should show some gratitude to the other: For one year, Limpar made Graham's job a lot easier and helped to raise Graham's legend; Graham made Limpar's legend possible.

 

[say yes]

Gallas on Nasri: 'Hes shown his true image. It doesnt make me happy but people can see for themselves who Nasri really is' (France Football)

nasri's really not too popular at the moment is he

 

[Uncle Mike]

Gallas on Nasri: 'Hes shown his true image. It doesnt make me happy but people can see for themselves who Nasri really is' (France Football)

nasri's really not too popular at the moment is he

Being cited for bad behavior by William Gallas isn't quite being told to cut down on your drug use by Keith Richards, but it's not exactly a green light, either.

 

[dpt49]

George Graham was a bit before my time, so all I really know of him are highlight reels. Was he really that bad, or is Limpar just being bitter? :shock:

I used to watch Arsenal a lot then.
It was strange because although we were quite boring and played a long ball game, it was also quite exciting because for the first time since the early seventies we actually were starting to look like a team that could win the league.

When we did win it in 1989, in the best finish to a league season ever, no matter what anyone says about Man City, it was almost unbelievable.

If anyone thinks that Wenger and the board are tight now, it was even worse then.
The whole of the first team in that league winning season cost just over 2m.
Michael Thomas, who scored the winning goal at Anfield, was on £400 a week plus bonuses when he was sold to Liverpool a few seasons later.

I can remember the same conversations with other supporters at Highbury that we have now. All about us not buying top quality players and never spending any money.
The only difference was that at least we play entertaining football now.

When he was sacked, I don't remember many fellow supporters complaining, in fact most had had enough of Graham and were fed up with his negative tactics and long ball game, but mostly with his refusal to spend money.

A lot of supporters might not know this, but we were one of the last of the top clubs in the league to spend a million pounds on one player.

To illustrate how tight with transfer fees and how defensive minded we were, the signing was David Seaman for 1.3m and we sold our GK, Lukic, who had won the league with us to Leeds for 1m, a net spend of 300k.

Guess who was the chairman.
A certain Mr Peter Hill Wood.

 

[dpt49]

I think we need some older gunners to shed some light on that, but it does sound unbelievable and more like a cartoon character

There were certain players at that time that got on the wrong side of Graham and when that happened they were got rid of very quickly.
I can remember Sansom, Nicholas, Limpar and others all falling out with him and being sold.

But other players like Adams, Dixon, Winterburn, Thomas, Davis, Merson, Smith etc were all hard working players that gave everything in every game.

To be fair to Graham he stuck with a lot of these players even though they had problems with drink and drugs, like Adams and Merson, because he knew they would do what he said, worked hard and were reliable.

If you read what most ex players have written about Graham in various article, they were all very loyal to him and trusted him, but the players that fell out with him and disagreed with his style of management would not be so charitable.

In many ways he was the opposite of Wenger.

 

[baccy_man]

It was the defence that Goerge Graham built and Arsène inherited that gave us a lot of success in Arsène's early years at the club,
and we have not really had a defence to match up to Dixon. Winterburn. Adams. and Bould. plus Seaman as our keeper