Fredrik Ljungberg (Out)

[Biggus]

There are several issues going on here, which people seem to be confusing.

1 - Freddie's been a nine year servant at Arsenal, and a pretty loyal one. Regardless of what he's getting paid, he did the business for us for many years - and deserves credit for that.

2 - Freddie has not performed for two seasons. There can be no doubting it. Will his talents be missed for any other reason than he was one man standing in the way of Abou Diaby playing on the wings? I doubt that too.

3 - Wenger obviously was prepared to sell him, but his comments in the press, and the fact that it's taken this long to find a buyer would indicate that he wasn't desperate to offload him either.

4 - Having a pop at your former club isn't classy - but that's no reason to disregard the comments he made out of hand


So how do you explain what Freddie said? Well, it's hard to know - but I don't accept that you can just dismiss it because it makes you feel uncomfortable. There probably are several reasons, and yes, saving face is probably part of it. But when the chips are down, if he genuinely felt that things were just drifting at Arsenal, without any real efforts being made to break back into the running for serious silverware, perhaps joining an up and coming side, who're spending big, with a chairman who's willing to invest in his side and play hardball for his team would be an attractive way to finish his playing career. After all, what was left for him at Arsenal? A few years as a bit-part player in some kind of 'project', that probably wouldn't come to fruition in the duration of his contract, might not be that attractive to him - and if he felt he'd been told that there would be investment in the side, that then did not materialise, well, I'd probably want to go somewhere where I could make a difference to something, rather than just hang around and get treated like yesterday's news.

Great post. A lot of the old team have 'slated' us since they left, or at least trotted out poor excuses for going (Henry, Vieira, Pires, Ljungberg). For all their money and whatnot, footballers have a short shelf life. Coincidentally, the amount of time Freddie has left of top-flight football is probably how long it will take our youth project to really come to fruition - 2/3 years. I doubt he wants to put in the hard work leading up to success and then be pushed out just as the trophies come flooding in.

Yes good post Asa. Glove- I've being getting flamed in the past few pages for daring to ask that very reason why all these players are speaking out after they've left or even before in Gallas's case. And while my pessimisism has been well and truly addressed. Nobody has an answer for my question:

Why are all these players speaking like this now?

This is not the Arsenal way, whats going on?

 

[thegame24]

there is obviously problems with deins departure.

players feel cheated, as i do.

why should they sit around baby sitting players who arnt good enough yet.

yes they are quality, but they would be even better if they had experience around them and only used their talents for half a season instead of a full blown 50 game season.

 

[guinertron]

Super post Glovegun!!!

I see a lot of people "quoting" what players have or have not said, but some of seem to have forgotten that Henry also said and we actually saw his words and not just a piece that Harry harris and Co. had written, that he believed that this group of players would have a great future.

I never actually saw a Henry o quote saying that we lacked ambition . As for Gallas who knows what he is up to. I've never been sold on Gallas so i'm not bothered what he says and i doubt most of the squad give a toss what he tells the press.

Freddie has been a good servant to the club, but he was saving face with his comments.
Time stands still for no man

 

[Biggus]

So you think it's all unrelated Guinertron?

 

[DC Gunner]

There are several issues going on here, which people seem to be confusing.

1 - Freddie's been a nine year servant at Arsenal, and a pretty loyal one. Regardless of what he's getting paid, he did the business for us for many years - and deserves credit for that.

2 - Freddie has not performed for two seasons. There can be no doubting it. Will his talents be missed for any other reason than he was one man standing in the way of Abou Diaby playing on the wings? I doubt that too.

3 - Wenger obviously was prepared to sell him, but his comments in the press, and the fact that it's taken this long to find a buyer would indicate that he wasn't desperate to offload him either.

4 - Having a pop at your former club isn't classy - but that's no reason to disregard the comments he made out of hand


So how do you explain what Freddie said? Well, it's hard to know - but I don't accept that you can just dismiss it because it makes you feel uncomfortable. There probably are several reasons, and yes, saving face is probably part of it. But when the chips are down, if he genuinely felt that things were just drifting at Arsenal, without any real efforts being made to break back into the running for serious silverware, perhaps joining an up and coming side, who're spending big, with a chairman who's willing to invest in his side and play hardball for his team would be an attractive way to finish his playing career. After all, what was left for him at Arsenal? A few years as a bit-part player in some kind of 'project', that probably wouldn't come to fruition in the duration of his contract, might not be that attractive to him - and if he felt he'd been told that there would be investment in the side, that then did not materialise, well, I'd probably want to go somewhere where I could make a difference to something, rather than just hang around and get treated like yesterday's news.

Great post. A lot of the old team have 'slated' us since they left, or at least trotted out poor excuses for going (Henry, Vieira, Pires, Ljungberg). For all their money and whatnot, footballers have a short shelf life. Coincidentally, the amount of time Freddie has left of top-flight football is probably how long it will take our youth project to really come to fruition - 2/3 years. I doubt he wants to put in the hard work leading up to success and then be pushed out just as the trophies come flooding in.

Why do I get the impression that we are heading in the direction of planning projects that would make us challengers [not necessarily winners] every 5 years, it is my opinion that successful clubs challenge year in and year out while building up their youth to mix with the challenge-experienced players , we can't just do one.

 

[Big Poppa]

Freddie was well within his rights to express his opinion. But I think he looks silly questioning Arsenal's ambition and then moving to West Ham. I think his own ambition should be interrogated - he wanted to stay in the comfort zone of London rather than move to Florence, Fiorentina are a far more 'up and coming' side than West Ham, thats for sure. He's 31 soon and has probably lost his final opportunity to win a European trophy.

Despite that, this does not make what he said untrue or at least, a concern. If players cannot be assured that the club is moving forwards, then what about fans? We need a more overt and pro-active demonstration of this so called 'good health' that this club is supposed to be in. It is insulting to be fed stats about attendances and beating 'the bigger teams' as some sort of indication that we are fine. Anyway, since when was 'fine' enough for a club of our size?

I do not like the small club mentality that has slowly begun creeping in over the last 3 years.

 

[guinertron]

No, what happens is that the older they get the less chance they have of winning cups e.g Henry with the European Cup. Thus having a shorter window of opportunity to do so. Its about shelf life.

Henry knew that the new team is not quite ready to challenge for the big prizes. Wenger believes that this squad will be a team of champions long term, Henry and Co look at from a selfish individual view of how long can he go at the top for. Also the boss knows his players have a shelf life too, milk them and sell them on.

I do also feel its a clash of ideals, Wenger's ideal is to do thing his way nurture and develop. Not to spend tens of millions on a big name or flavor of the month player. For players like Henry, PV etc. they are happy to do it when to a point till they get to an age where they want more one last pay out, a new wife, to live in the sun. They become big, maybe too big for their own good and start demanding big names mistaking a big name trophy signing for a better chance of success.
Who's to say that we won't win the league or CL this coming season. Just because Liverpool, United have pissed cash up the wall left right and centre is a dead cert to success? Arsène thinks that his squad represents the best way to success.

And as for not moving forward i'm sure the club knew that this move was going to be tricky and the rebuilding on the pitch has not helped, but Wenger is building something long term.
Too be honest i rather our direction than that of Sp**s, Liverpool throwing money around and looking for the short term. I want an Arsenal that will be top of the tree for years not one that will drift in and out spending cash for fun.

 

[ronitc]

I do not like the small club mentality that has slowly begun creeping in over the last 3 years.

I don't know where you've been, but it's always been there. Being successful over the last decade has just masked these insecurities.

 

[Christofaux]

4 - Having a pop at your former club isn't classy - but that's no reason to disregard the comments he made out of hand

Why do people think what hes saying is bad, All hes saying is his time at the club was up and he needed to move on, he knew he was only a bit player. Its pretty clear too.

 

[sabret00the]

I do not like the small club mentality that has slowly begun creeping in over the last 3 years.

I don't know where you've been, but it's always been there. Being successful over the last decade has just masked these insecurities.

i think it's pride. wenger knows that this team is good enough to fend off the challenge for fourth spot and he also knows that if he keeps it together he's got a title winning team waiting to blossom. however buying world class stars would mar ever so slightly and i don't think he's willing to see that happen. the only times wenger has spent big have been luxury buys (reyes) and desperation buys (henry), anything else has been doing it on the cheap. should fourth look like a challenge come january one his wishlist players become available, we'll spend big. otherwise we'll continue to try and do it on the cheap in order for him to leave his legacy on world football.

 

[DC Gunner]

I do not like the small club mentality that has slowly begun creeping in over the last 3 years.

I don't know where you've been, but it's always been there. Being successful over the last decade has just masked these insecurities.

I "kind of" don't like the mentality of people equating anyone wanting current success with being as someone wanting cash-splashing, it is a bit too narrow and simplistic way of looking @ how people want the club to have a contemporary as well as future success.

I remember some people making fun of how Manure did their transactions last summer, and how it would not have guaranteed them success for 2006-2007, guess they were wrong [not that they will come out and admit it] because they were not willing to admit that spending money the right way is one step [amongst many] for winning, of course it would require having a good manager and selecting the right players for the team.

Few things that bother me a little:
1-When I see very good players with above average price tag, I almost know we are not going to get them, so I don't even bother to imagine it.
2-Whenever one mentions that they want current success, they always are reminded of how tough it was in the past, it is as if you have to settle for what you have because it could have been worse as opposed to thinking that I don't want to see those days again, so let's keep improving. Arsenal is one of the few teams that have won at least one league title in almost every decade in the last 70 years, so we know we are not inconsistent nor we are small club.
3-When I want my club "arsenal" to be more successful than other big clubs "manure for example", one doesn't need to be told "go be their fan" insinuating that one is a glory hunter; NO, We are not Glory Hunters, we want Arsenal to be Glorious now and in the future
4-Teams that want to be the best in their leagues and Europe need to have multiple sources for getting talent, one, building a good youth system, two, look for outsiders who can be as talented, three, mix youth with experience.We have to have a plan to succeed now as well as in the future.
5-I don't necessarily want us to buy expensive or splash cash, but I just want us to always be able to do so if the player is suitable to make us a better team.

Unless one thinks Freddie is lying, one has to address what Freddie said alongside calling Freddie's "not classy", otherwise it is just about Freddie saying something without worrying about the merits of what he said.

 

[guinertron]

nods...
mirrors my comments

 

[ronitc]

I do not like the small club mentality that has slowly begun creeping in over the last 3 years.

I don't know where you've been, but it's always been there. Being successful over the last decade has just masked these insecurities.

i think it's pride. wenger knows that this team is good enough to fend off the challenge for fourth spot and he also knows that if he keeps it together he's got a title winning team waiting to blossom. however buying world class stars would mar ever so slightly and i don't think he's willing to see that happen. the only times wenger has spent big have been luxury buys (reyes) and desperation buys (henry), anything else has been doing it on the cheap. should fourth look like a challenge come january one his wishlist players become available, we'll spend big. otherwise we'll continue to try and do it on the cheap in order for him to leave his legacy on world football.

it's kind of a perverse logic if you think about it that way but you very well may be right. for wenger it may be more important how he was successful rather than just being successful.

 

[Grampus_Eight]

I don't put any stock into Freddie's quotes - just misplaced pride.

I think Freddie wanted to stay, but the Boss let him know he wasn't necessarily in his plans. Simple as that really. Perhaps if Fred was willing to take a pay cut he could have stayed around, but there's no room for an unproductive attacking player on those wages. Sad that he won't get a testimonial though.

Disappointing that he didn't try something new though - and opted to keep his London life and paypacket, but just about everyone always opts for a better wage. But it would have been good to see him adapt to a less demanding atmosphere where the pace is a little slower whether that be in Spain or Italy and enjoy some success again.

Fiorentina, Roma, Napoli...
Atletico, Valencia, Villareal...

Any of those would have been great for him.

 

[gunnerGH]

Who is the clubs longest serving player now freddie has gone?

 

[thegame24]

kolo toure

 

[gunnerGH]

kolo toure

Yeh was just wondering.

Seems like only yesterday Kolo joined. We have worse retention rates than McDonalds at the moment.

Hopefully Arsène has settled now or be it; players to be added.

 

[thegame24]

really does remind me of ajax, no long serving players, and fearful of them moving on after a few seasons.

 

[gunnerGH]

really does remind me of ajax, no long serving players, and fearful of them moving on after a few seasons.

The difference being Ajax play in a poor league containing 4 premiership quality teams at best!

Their fans accept this.

We on the other hand, do not. I question Wengers thinking on this matter

 

[thegame24]

it is

Unbelievable



EDIT

though end of the day when i really think about it, its not wengers fault

i remember after 04 he said he wanted to make us the best team in the world.

Something is blatently wrong inside the club ever since vieira left