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PL | Manchester City v Arsenal | 5th November 2017 | 14:15 GMT | Sky Sports

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Match Prediction


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Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
I am intrigued to see how we will perform in the EL against a half-decent team in the knockout stages. My biggest fear is we will play the same disjointed second string team in the first leg, lose something like 3-1, and then Wenger will try to win the second leg with a better team selection, but it will be too late.
And then after that when we try to tell all the AKB chaps on here how you pointed this out before it even happened they'll give the "Wow, hindsight is always 20/20 vision".. Despite the fact that here you are, predicting the predictable.
 

Ceballinhos

Cheating on Santi
I don't know why you're still talking about net spend when our current squad is underachieving.

Sure net spend plays a huge part in final results.
But it shouldn't excuse our mediocrity.

Can we do better with our current squad? Hell yes.
Can we do better with our current ressources? yes.

Net spend has nothing to do when the manager decides not to start your best scorer against the best team in the league.
It has nothing to do with the fact our midfield has been a mess for years and the manager has refused to fix the issue by bringing new players in.

And it has nothing to do with the lack of desire and professionalism within the team where they stop playing when they thought Silva was offside or when they show up at anfield only to get destroyed.
 

VancouverCanuck

Well-Known Member

Country: Canada
I don't know why you're still talking about net spend when our current squad is underachieving.

Sure net spend plays a huge part in final results.
But it shouldn't excuse our mediocrity.

Can we do better with our current squad? Hell yes.
Can we do better with our current ressources? yes.

Net spend has nothing to do when the manager decides not to start your best scorer against the best team in the league.
It has nothing to do with the fact our midfield has been a mess for years and the manager has refused to fix the issue by bringing new players in.

And it has nothing to do with the lack of desire and professionalism within the team where they stop playing when they thought Silva was offside or when they show up at anfield only to get destroyed.
And nothing to do with letting Alexis and Özil running down their contracts. Two players who are easily worth over 100m. Nothing to do keeping players on the payroll who are not contributing: Walcott and Campbell. Imagine how much our #squadcost would be if we can manage our resources better.
 

Ceballinhos

Cheating on Santi
And nothing to do with letting Alexis and Özil running down their contracts. Two players who are easily worth over 100m. Nothing to do keeping players on the payroll who are not contributing: Walcott and Campbell. Imagine how much our #squadcost would be if we can manage our resources better.

Obviously.

I won't argue with the fact that money helps a lot in order to achieve success.
But we're not doing ourselves any favor with the way we're working the last few years.
We're doing amateur work in so much areas. It is simply not good enough for a club this great.

Even the Sp**s are doing much better than us, with less ressources.
So money isn't the main issue IMO.

Let's fix the way we work first, and get to the best we can possibly can with our current ressources. Then we will complain about the others spending more than us.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
I don't know why you're still talking about net spend when our current squad is underachieving.

Sure net spend plays a huge part in final results.
But it shouldn't excuse our mediocrity.

Can we do better with our current squad? Hell yes.
Can we do better with our current ressources? yes.

Net spend has nothing to do when the manager decides not to start your best scorer against the best team in the league.
It has nothing to do with the fact our midfield has been a mess for years and the manager has refused to fix the issue by bringing new players in.

And it has nothing to do with the lack of desire and professionalism within the team where they stop playing when they thought Silva was offside or when they show up at anfield only to get destroyed.
Jeez man, you're a med student. If you don't understand probability, who does. :lol:The more money you put into a team the higher up the table it's likely to end up.

We've spent half what City have and are about 5th spend. We're hovering around 5th/6th. How is that mediocrity? You're looking at the minutiae and not the overall picture, a common mistake.

Could we do better, of course, Sp**s are for a start with a slightly less spend. But what are their circumstances, and is it right to beat Klopp and Wenger over the head with them.
 

Ceballinhos

Cheating on Santi
Jeez man, you're a med student. If you don't understand probability, who does. :lol:The more money you put into a team the higher up the table it's likely to end up.

We've spent half what City have and are about 5th spend. We're hovering around 5th/6th. How is that mediocrity? You're looking at the minutiae and not the overall picture, a common mistake.

Could we do better, of course, Sp**s are for a start with a slightly less spend. But what are their circumstances, and is it right to beat Klopp and Wenger over the head with them.

I'm not talking about the table.
And tbf I don't really care if we don't win the league.

Football in my opinion is more than just winning.
I'm talking about mediocrity because this club can do so much better. For the last few years we've been playing at the level we're expected to play (one of the greatest club in the country) only half a season.
Last year we had a great first part of the season only to play like a midtable team for the most part of January to April.
And don't get me started about Champions League where we became so bad lately it was embarassing where we used at least to compete with the best team in Europe during 2 games with even less ressources, and much better teams (against barcelona in 2011 for instance which was one of the greatest team ever IMO).

What pisses me off (sorry if it sounds aggressive I don't know another word to express it English is not my main language :lol:) the most is that some are trying to justify our mediocrity mostly because of net spend.

Ofc net spends plays a big part in modern game. I won't deny that.
But we're just not working good/hard enough on and outside the field.
I really think we can do much better even though the likes of City and Man Utd can spend a lot more than we do.

But I'm frustrated because I have the feeling we can do a lot better. This club has so much potential: financial ressources, great stadium, great city, great fanbase, great history.
If other teams in Europe can compete with the most powerful clubs in Europe, why don't we?
What has net spend to do with the fact our team looks like sometimes they don't want to work hard on the field? (the game against Liverpool was a disgrace as was our second part of the season last year)

Don't tell me we couldn't improve our midfield last summer when we've had a +£20M net spend.

I'm not even expecting Arsenal to win the League.
I just want to enjoy watching games again. To enjoy following this team. And to have the feeling we're doing the best we can within our own ressources.
I loved the Fabregas era even though we haven't won anything. This team was really exciting. It played great football. There was a lot of exciting players to watch. It was a joy to see our young players develop and make them very good players.
I was proud to see Arsenal compete with the best clubs in the premiership and europe even though we've spent only £10M during the summer.

Right now I don't enjoy watching games but I still do because I love this club.
There's a toxic atmosphere around the club and they're doing nothing to fix that.
We all know it's just a matter of "when" things are going to get really bad once again. Like it did last year.
It's getting boring. :lol:
 

A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
Moderator
12:52 Koscielny gives his shirt and shorts to David Silva :lol:
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
I'm not talking about the table.
And tbf I don't really care if we don't win the league.

Football in my opinion is more than just winning.
I'm talking about mediocrity because this club can do so much better. For the last few years we've been playing at the level we're expected to play (one of the greatest club in the country) only half a season.
Last year we had a great first part of the season only to play like a midtable team for the most part of January to April.
And don't get me started about Champions League where we became so bad lately it was embarassing where we used at least to compete with the best team in Europe during 2 games with even less ressources, and much better teams (against barcelona in 2011 for instance which was one of the greatest team ever IMO).

What pisses me off (sorry if it sounds aggressive I don't know another word to express it English is not my main language :lol:) the most is that some are trying to justify our mediocrity mostly because of net spend.

Ofc net spends plays a big part in modern game. I won't deny that.
But we're just not working good/hard enough on and outside the field.
I really think we can do much better even though the likes of City and Man Utd can spend a lot more than we do.

But I'm frustrated because I have the feeling we can do a lot better. This club has so much potential: financial ressources, great stadium, great city, great fanbase, great history.
If other teams in Europe can compete with the most powerful clubs in Europe, why don't we?
What has net spend to do with the fact our team looks like sometimes they don't want to work hard on the field? (the game against Liverpool was a disgrace as was our second part of the season last year)

Don't tell me we couldn't improve our midfield last summer when we've had a +£20M net spend.

I'm not even expecting Arsenal to win the League.
I just want to enjoy watching games again. To enjoy following this team. And to have the feeling we're doing the best we can within our own ressources.
I loved the Fabregas era even though we haven't won anything. This team was really exciting. It played great football. There was a lot of exciting players to watch. It was a joy to see our young players develop and make them very good players.
I was proud to see Arsenal compete with the best clubs in the premiership and europe even though we've spent only £10M during the summer.

Right now I don't enjoy watching games but I still do because I love this club.
There's a toxic atmosphere around the club and they're doing nothing to fix that.
We all know it's just a matter of "when" things are going to get really bad once again. Like it did last year.
It's getting boring. :lol:
I saw a team that battled hard on the pitch yesterday bro. They were outgunned by more skilful players . . . but not by much, and got no luck with the ref.

Other teams stop and put their hand up these days to try and influence the linesman during an obvious offside, it's not just Arsenal ( I don't like it though)

Champions league we've often got through to the last 16, where we meet Barca or Bayern.

We are not mediocre by any real definition of the word.

Money is increasingly more important, no point in comparing the old days. Football is changing fast.

In my view, like a lot of our fans, you suffer from 'confirmation bias'.
Confirmation bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.

That's my diagnosis. :lol:;)

 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

This pisses me off to no end. Yes, it's blatantly offside and of course that goal shouldn't have stood, but what **** are Xhaka and Koscielny doing? Play to the whistle and that ball never makes it to Jesus. It'd still have been an atrocious decision, but at least it wouldn't have been a goal.
First time I'm seeing this again. Xhaka is beginning to develop a reputation as a bit of a flipping idiot but I expect better from the captain. It's an example of one of the many little things that we do wrong that you don't need money to fix.
 

Ceballinhos

Cheating on Santi
I saw a team that battled hard on the pitch yesterday bro. They were outgunned by more skilful players . . . but not by much, and got no luck with the ref.

Other teams stop and put their hand up these days to try and influence the linesman during an obvious offside, it's not just Arsenal ( I don't like it though)

Champions league we've often got through to the last 16, where we meet Barca or Bayern.

We are not mediocre by any real definition of the word.

Money is increasingly more important, no point in comparing the old days. Football is changing fast.

In my view, like a lot of our fans, you suffer from 'confirmation bias'.
Confirmation bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.

That's my diagnosis. :lol:;)

Yesterday they battled hard it's true.
I was talking about the bigger picture when you don't know if the team is going to work hard enough in order to win or just be passengers throughout the game.

Champions league is something else. Ofc Barca or Bayern are much better teams and I'm not expecting us to beat them but we make it easier for them to destroy us.

There's a difference between the team with the likes of Podolski Jenkinson Gervinho & Giroud which was knocked out because of away goals by the best Bayern team in the last 10 years (who won it the same year btw)
and getting humiliated 10-2 against a weaker Bayern (and a much better Arsenal team at least on paper).

Ofc money is important. Again I won't deny this fact.

But I have a different opinion:
I think Wenger/the club was ahead of its time for a long period in a lot of areas (scouting, work ethic, developing young talents)
but others clubs have caught up really fast thanks to rich owners when we have stagnated.
There's a lack of vision, courage, professionalism from the top to the bottom of the club.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Stop defending English players because they dive it's embarrassing and that's why England national team always fail.

When Alexis dives or Suarez we never stop hear about it but when English players dive like Sterling Alli they end up saying he not that type of player :lol:
He does owe him an apology, doesn’t mean he has to give him one though and he probably won’t.

He says he dived when he didn’t dive.
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
Go back to that United game in 04/05 where Rooney dived for a penalty. Or the fact that Ferdinand wasn't given his marching orders for tackling Ljungberg as the last man. Or that CL quarter final against Liverpool where Kuyt basically rugby tackled Hleb in the box only for the referee to not give a penalty. Didn't stop him from giving a penalty to Liverpool after Babel dived. How about RVP's red card against Barca in 2010/2011, or the fact that Abidal was going around throttling Arsenal players in that with no consequences.
There's no doubting refs were blatantly conspiring against us back then, when we and Man Utd were going at it. I'd laugh at anyone who tried to argue against that. After that, there were some high profile outrageous decisions tht went against us too. We wasn't the first or last team to get bent over by officiating at Camp Nou though.
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
He didn't dive, it was a penalty.
Im not one for making up stuff to make myself better, but that pen was soft and Sterling went to ground rather than being forced off his feet. He doesn't even do it well.

Now, one could argue there was definitely contact--albeit upper-body--but was that enough to force him to the ground? He takes a step after initial contact before his left leg goes limp... That's not a natural reaction to that type of contact. Referees are told to book players for going to ground, as harsh at that decision might have been had he booked Sterling.

If there was video replays that pen isn't given the majority of the time. It was soft.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Im not one for making up stuff to make myself better, but that pen was soft and Sterling went to ground rather than being forced off his feet. He doesn't even do it well.

Now, one could argue there was definitely contact--albeit upper-body--but was that enough to force him to the ground? He takes a step after initial contact before his left leg goes limp... That's not a natural reaction to that type of contact. Referees are told to book players for going to ground, as harsh at that decision might have been had he booked Sterling.

If there was video replays that pen isn't given the majority of the time. It was soft.
http://arsenalist.com/f/2017-18/man...-nacho-monreal-foul-which-led-to-penalty.html

Sterling cuts across him, at this stage all you can do is shoulder barge him. Nacho does that but then almost simultaneously takes his leg.

There’s nothing soft about that, he cut across his defender had the ball under control and would have been able to pass or shoot if Nacho didn’t illegally impede him.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
I think Wenger/the club was ahead of its time for a long period in a lot of areas (scouting, work ethic, developing young talents)
but others clubs have caught up really fast thanks to rich owners when we have stagnated.
Totally agree with this.

I see an identical pattern to Liverpool, winning a lot, losing a few. Losing to teams you shouldn't do on occasion. Similar spend, finished 1 point off each other last year. Similar this year.

The question is would you level all those criticisms at them too? I think not, the chances are both those clubs are busting a gut but without their loan players turning out to be world class eg Kane and Alli.
 

Ceballinhos

Cheating on Santi
Totally agree with this.

I see an identical pattern to Liverpool, winning a lot, losing a few. Losing to teams you shouldn't do on occasion. Similar spend, finished 1 point off each other last year. Similar this year.

The question is would you level all those criticisms at them too? I think not, the chances are both those clubs are busting a gut but without their loan players turning out to be world class eg Kane and Alli.

I agree about the Kane & Alli part. There is a part of luck obviously.

I'm talking about the things you have control over.
If I was a Liverpool fan I would be mad about Klopp not bringing in any defenders/top keeper. They tried for VVD but it hasn't worked out. They had no plan B.
That's the kind of thing you have control over and can be fixed. Liverpool has the ressources to bring in new defenders and try to improve this area.

Same goes for Arsenal. We have obvious weaknesses/problems that hasn't been addressed for too long.
I love Wenger and have a huge respect for the manager he is but I don't think he's the right guy for the job anymore. He had a few shots but he couldn't improve the team. There's no shame in that.
Other great managers have left their clubs because it was not working out anymore.
Last summer was the opportunity to start over with a new coach and try a different approach. Something new.
I'm not saying I'm sure we'd be better with another coach at the head of the team but at least we're trying to improve.

If you do your best and everything within your power to try to improve things but it's still not enough to compete, then fine.
It's part of the game. They have more money they buy better players and a better coach. But at least we've done our best. No regrets.
I don't have the feeling the club is doing that atm.
 
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