Squad Analysis 2020/21

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
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Yeah I agree we do need a few experienced heads in the team.

Its finding them thats the hard part. We seem to find the ones who are happy to pick up a wage who feel they have nothing more to achieve. No personal goal.
A good start would be to perhaps sign British players for this, they often have more passion and drive to perform for English clubs in their latter years.

We are on the other side of the spectrum, signing ageing Brazilians... a nation filled with mercenary players who play in China, Ukraine and Russia as early as their mid twenties just for a nice wage. Not saying they all are like that, but a random guy from South America has no loyalties to an English side, unless they've been there their whole career. I really do think being born and raised in the country really helps with these kind of things.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
The best leaders by example are currently Martinelli, ESR and Saka, 3 players that will give everything on the pitch and others will follow them.
Look at the game against Chelsea and the way Laca played around them, he was pressing, running, working throughout the game only because he saw 3 younger players doing that.
You are right and wrong at the same time about this, we did miss leaders, but the problem wasn't age related. Martinelli has a world class mentality, he injects insane energy into this team, there's no way any Milner/Henderson or whoever could do the same, it's really unique

Yeah but your Milners and Hendersons set the tone and the attitude of the team. They give 110% every game. No heads down throwing the hands up in the air when someone gives them a slightly bad pass.
 

Macho

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A good start would be to perhaps sign British players for this, they often have more passion and drive to perform for English clubs in their latter years.

We are on the other side of the spectrum, signing ageing Brazilians... a nation filled with mercenary players who play in China, Ukraine and Russia as early as their mid twenties just for a nice wage. Not saying they all are like that, but a random guy from South America has no loyalties to an English side, unless they've been there their whole career. I really do think being born and raised in the country really helps with these kind of things.
I strongly disagree.

Luiz has played with his heart on his sleeve and has always tried his best despite what we think about him. Comparing his approach to Willian is night and day and he’s Brazilian.

He tried to play whilst concussed for us for example.

Podolski came here kinda late and was made into a sub player when he could have been perhaps more at another club, he still tried his best and was ultra committed and positive about the club.

Monreal etc

Many examples over the years especially as we don’t sign too many English from the premiership.
 

BigPoppaPump

Points Out The Obvious
Why do people keep putting a new CB in their starting line up? We have like 8 and buy one every transfer window. Gabriel/Holding is enough until we clear out guys like Luiz, Sokratis and Mustafi. Then Chambers/Mari is enough for rotation.
 
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Sebastes

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Definite Outs:

Mustafi
Luiz
Kolasinac
Sokratis
Ceballos
Özil
Lacazette (1 year left need £).

Leno
Bellerin
Gabriel
NEW CB
Tierney
Partey
NEW CM
Saka
Martinelli
Auba
NEW striker/wide forward player.

Subs:
New GK
Mari
Holding
Chambers/Saliba
Willock
AMN
ESR
Willian
Nelson
Pepe
Eddie/Balogun
Xhaka/Elneny (sell one keep the other)

This is realistic in the sense we can't let go 20 players and sign 20. From that we need:

CB
CM
Striker/wide forward
No 2 GK.

We will maybe need to make a few sales like AMN etc but we are gonna find it incredible hard getting 3 quality first team players without EL or CL football. We're probably taking 120m plus.
Very reasonable. Would add backup LB when Kola goes. What about Guendozi and Mavropanos?

Are you thinking 4-3-3 with Saka as LCM? That's the only way I can make sense of the starting 11. If it's a 4-2-3-1 I think we need two mids - one allround CM who can play holding mid in a 3 and one more creative attack minded 8/10.

I'd probably look to try to build on the 4-2-3-1 we saw against Chelsea. In that formation I think we have good enough people for the double pivot once Partey's back. I'd account for all of ESR, Saka and Martinelli to run into slumps during spring. We have cover for Saka and Martinelli so I'd prioritise getting an technical, creative mid in January. Someone who can play in the hole but also could work in a midfield 3. For me that's a non-negotiable. Second most important position is a new keeper for risk mitigation purposes. I wouldn't mind looking at someone who could compete with Leno, rather than a clear no. 2. After that it really depends on outgoings when it comes to this transfer window.

Kola, Laca, Xhaka are the ones I think would call for a replacement. I don't really rate anyone of them, but if they are still here I don't think we should get anyone in. One of Bellerin/AMN is sellable without needing immediate replacement and could be use to fund other transfers.

I know it's not a transfer thread, but can't help myself. Names should be seen as indicative of profiles

January
CM/AM - Sabitzer/Nkunku/Buendia. Wouldn't be completely against Eriksen/Coutinho on loan as we have ESR.
GK - Onana

Summer
Apart from your definite outs I'd sell Xhaka, Nketiah (if we can get Balogun to sign) and Holding/Chambers (if Saliba kicks on).

CM - allrounder, very good passer, 6/8
RCB - experienced (25+?)
Backup LB - young prospect
CF/LW - I still think Depay is a perfect fit as he can play both...
(RB) - not a priority but could potentially need to upgrade on Bellerin/AMN (this is dependent on us selling one in January and the other not being good enough during the remainder of the season).

I agree we can't sell and buy 20 players and even this here is probably pushing it. At the same time I feel 2 in Jan and 4 in summer is doable, even though it's improbable (not really counting backup LB). If Guendozi kicks on and he and Arteta can somehow reconcile, he could perhaps be an alternative for the midfield role, letting us focus on the others.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
Very reasonable. Would add backup LB when Kola goes. What about Guendozi and Mavropanos?

Are you thinking 4-3-3 with Saka as LCM? That's the only way I can make sense of the starting 11. If it's a 4-2-3-1 I think we need two mids - one allround CM who can play holding mid in a 3 and one more creative attack minded 8/10.

I'd probably look to try to build on the 4-2-3-1 we saw against Chelsea. In that formation I think we have good enough people for the double pivot once Partey's back. I'd account for all of ESR, Saka and Martinelli to run into slumps during spring. We have cover for Saka and Martinelli so I'd prioritise getting an technical, creative mid in January. Someone who can play in the hole but also could work in a midfield 3. For me that's a non-negotiable. Second most important position is a new keeper for risk mitigation purposes. I wouldn't mind looking at someone who could compete with Leno, rather than a clear no. 2. After that it really depends on outgoings when it comes to this transfer window.

Kola, Laca, Xhaka are the ones I think would call for a replacement. I don't really rate anyone of them, but if they are still here I don't think we should get anyone in. One of Bellerin/AMN is sellable without needing immediate replacement and could be use to fund other transfers.

I know it's not a transfer thread, but can't help myself. Names should be seen as indicative of profiles

January
CM/AM - Sabitzer/Nkunku/Buendia. Wouldn't be completely against Eriksen/Coutinho on loan as we have ESR.
GK - Onana

Summer
Apart from your definite outs I'd sell Xhaka, Nketiah (if we can get Balogun to sign) and Holding/Chambers (if Saliba kicks on).

CM - allrounder, very good passer, 6/8
RCB - experienced (25+?)
Backup LB - young prospect
CF/LW - I still think Depay is a perfect fit as he can play both...
(RB) - not a priority but could potentially need to upgrade on Bellerin/AMN (this is dependent on us selling one in January and the other not being good enough during the remainder of the season).

I agree we can't sell and buy 20 players and even this here is probably pushing it. At the same time I feel 2 in Jan and 4 in summer is doable, even though it's improbable (not really counting backup LB). If Guendozi kicks on and he and Arteta can somehow reconcile, he could perhaps be an alternative for the midfield role, letting us focus on the others.

Leno
Bellerin CB Gabriel Tierney
Partey CM
Saka Buendia (or other) martinelli
Auba

Its 4 2 3 1/ 4 3 3 with Saka or Buendia (or other acm) dropping abit when necessary. Its quite flexible. We could also see sometimes Saka and Martinelli switch during games for 5 /10 minute spells.

If it is 4 2 3 1 we would need another CM just depends on budget and Xhaka situation.

I'm only putting Buendia as an example cause I think he can do a good job and he's within our budget. It would also allow us to go big on a CM and a CB. We would have options off the bench like ESR, Nelson probably Pepe along with defensive ones.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
Why do people keep putting a new CB in their starting line up? We have like 8 and buy one every transfer window. Gabriel/Holding is enough until we clear out guys like Luiz, Sokratis and Mustafi. Then Chambers/Mari is enough for rotation.
Exactly. It's mental.

Gabriel looks good. Holding decent. Saliba needs opportunity and Mari and Chambers are available
It's not a problem area at all in truth.

We get rid of Mustafi, Luiz and Sokratis.
Luiz has played 450ish minutes in the PL, Mustafi I think less and Sok 0. There's really no need to waste our resources replacing minimal.minutes
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
Exactly. It's mental.

Gabriel looks good. Holding decent. Saliba needs opportunity and Mari and Chambers are available
It's not a problem area at all in truth.

We get rid of Mustafi, Luiz and Sokratis.
Luiz has played 450ish minutes in the PL, Mustafi I think less and Sok 0. There's really no need to waste our resources replacing minimal.minutes

Mari (back up)
Holding (back up)
Gabriel (starting)
New CB (starting)
Saliba ( EL if we are in it, cup, some league as back up or if play 3 CB)

Mustafi (gone)
Sokratis (gone)
Luiz (gone)
Chambers (sell)

You won't finish top 4 with a first choice back 4 of.

Bellerin Holding Gabriel Tierney.
 

Sebastes

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Leno
Bellerin CB Gabriel Tierney
Partey CM
Saka Buendia (or other) martinelli
Auba

Its 4 2 3 1/ 4 3 3 with Saka or Buendia (or other acm) dropping abit when necessary. Its quite flexible. We could also see sometimes Saka and Martinelli switch during games for 5 /10 minute spells.

If it is 4 2 3 1 we would need another CM just depends on budget and Xhaka situation.

I'm only putting Buendia as an example cause I think he can do a good job and he's within our budget. It would also allow us to go big on a CM and a CB. We would have options off the bench like ESR, Nelson probably Pepe along with defensive ones.
Makes sense, but then you're thinking as I am - that we really need two new signings for midfield, but you see Buendia (in the example) as the CF/winger signing...

Seems we're pretty much in agreement regarding formation and lineup. I also want the flexibility between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 but in the short term it makes sense to try to build on the formation from Chelsea and get some consistency...
 

Macho

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Why do people keep putting a new CB in their starting line up? We have like 8 and buy one every transfer window. Gabriel/Holding is enough until we clear out guys like Luiz, Sokratis and Mustafi. Then Chambers/Mari is enough for rotation.
Holding is seen as upgradable and not entirely convincing.

Like the majority of our starting 11 really.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
Mari (back up)
Holding (back up)
Gabriel (starting)
New CB (starting)
Saliba ( EL if we are in it, cup, some league as back up or if play 3 CB)

Mustafi (gone)
Sokratis (gone)
Luiz (gone)
Chambers (sell)

You won't finish top 4 with a first choice back 4 of.

Bellerin Holding Gabriel Tierney.
Why not? It's near enough comparable to Man UTDs back 4, Leicester's and they're well on track for top four.

That's without knowing how good Saliba is and will be next season.

Our midfield has one player up to scratch. So we need probably 3 new midfielders. Or at least 2 top quality ones. That's the transfer budget.

If we do shift some players (unlikely to be many for much of a fee given the whole season will be behind closed doors and many have contracts expiring within 2 seasons.) the next priority ought to be a CF with a better physical presence.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
Why not? It's near enough comparable to Man UTDs back 4, Leicester's and they're well on track for top four.

That's without knowing how good Saliba is and will be next season.

Our midfield has one player up to scratch. So we need probably 3 new midfielders. Or at least 2 top quality ones. That's the transfer budget.

If we do shift some players (unlikely to be many for much of a fee given the whole season will be behind closed doors and many have contracts expiring within 2 seasons.) the next priority ought to be a CF with a better physical presence.

Evans, Fofana and Soyuncu are better than Mari, Holding and Gabriel.

Maguire and Lindelof are better. Not by much but United will reinforce also the central defense area. Wan Bisakka is better than Bellerin defensively which helps the rest of the defence.

Saliba until the day he plays for the first team and puts a run of performances together can't be counted upon. Plus Arteta clearly doesn't fancy him even to have him in and around the squad. Which doesn't say much.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
Evans, Fofana and Soyuncu are better than Mari, Holding and Gabriel.

Maguire and Lindelof are better. Not by much but United will reinforce also the central defense area. Wan Bisakka is better than Bellerin defensively which helps the rest of the defence.

Saliba until the day he plays for the first team and puts a run of performances together can't be counted upon. Plus Arteta clearly doesn't fancy him even to have him in and around the squad. Which doesn't say much.
And yet Leicester and UTD have conceded more goals than us.

Not arguing that you couldn't upgrade CB if you tried. Just that after spending £60m in the last two seasons and with one of the lowest tally of goals conceded, it's a waste of resources to do so. With more glaring issues in midfield. Issues that when addressed will improve our defence too.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
And yet Leicester and UTD have conceded more goals than us.

Not arguing that you couldn't upgrade CB if you tried. Just that after spending £60m in the last two seasons and with one of the lowest tally of goals conceded, it's a waste of resources to do so. With more glaring issues in midfield. Issues that when addressed will improve our defence too.

Leicester have conceded 1 more than us. United 4. However look at goals scored.

We have a good defence because we have sacrificed forward play for defence. That's not just because they have better strikers. There teams push forward. Leave gaps. How often do you see Vary and Rushford tracking fullbacks into the corners like Auba was?

Leicester and United have scored twice as many as us. Meaning there's a clear emphasis on attack not just defence.

We have seen this year a clear focus on defence first. When we start opening up and commiting men forward that defence will be exposed a lot more.

We spent 30m on Saliba which to date has been a waste. He hasn't added anything nor looks like he will. That means we need someone for now. Not in 2 years.
 
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dka91

Well-Known Member
We spent 30m on Saliba which to date has been a waste. He hasn't added anything nor looks like he will. That means we need someone for now. Not in 2 years.

What is your opinion on the Saliba situation, do you think he deserves a chance?
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
What is your opinion on the Saliba situation, do you think he deserves a chance?

Personally I feel the way he has been treated is amatuer from the club and embarrassing.

My view is if he clearly isn't good enough how did we manage to pay 30m for him. What flaws in his game did we not pick up on.

If he is close but just not 100% ready either send him on loan (and don't **** it up) or involve him in some way. If you lose this guy now in terms of his attitude to the club its hard to come back.

Personally I would have said. Your in the squad. Some games you will play with under 23s to stay match fit. You will be involved abit EL and carabao Cup. Just to make him feel apart of the squad and important. Saliba and Luiz or Holding v Dundalk wouldn't have been a problem.

Imagine how he feels watching Fofana playing for 2nd place Leicester and owning the position at 19. And him supposedly superior is playing under 23s football for a team in 14th. Weird.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
Leicester have conceded 1 more than us. United 4. However look at goals scored.

We have a good defence because we have sacrificed forward play for defence. That's not just because they have better strikers. There teams push forward. Leave gaps. How often do you see Vary and Rushford tracking fullbacks into the corners like Auba was?

Leicester and United have scored twice as many as us. Meaning there's a clear emphasis on attack not just defence.

We have seen this year a clear focus on defence first. When we start opening up and commiting men forward that defence will be exposed a lot more.

We spent 30m on Saliba which to date has been a waste. He hasn't added anything nor looks like he will. That means we need someone for now. Not in 2 years.
It's interesting. So your opinion is to improve our attack we should be focusing spending limited resources on a CB? I disagree.

United and Leicester have both scored more goals. Do they focus more on attack? They're both definitely more direct, but they're both counter attacking teams and Leicester regularly give up the lion's share of possession to the opposition so to say they are attack focused is something I disagree with. But direct yes. And that works because of players like Vardy, Madinson, Ndidi, Barnes, Teilemans. Not because of Evans and Fofana.

As for your comment about wasting 30m on Saliba I tend to agree. But that's due at this point to mismanagement of him. I've seen nothing in the couple of games I've watched him play to suggest he isn't capable of playing at EPL or EL or Cup level. He's looked a class above in the under age games I've watched. And nothing that warrants replacing him.
 

14Henry

Well-Known Member
It's interesting. So your opinion is to improve our attack we should be focusing spending limited resources on a CB? I disagree.

United and Leicester have both scored more goals. Do they focus more on attack? They're both definitely more direct, but they're both counter attacking teams and Leicester regularly give up the lion's share of possession to the opposition so to say they are attack focused is something I disagree with. But direct yes. And that works because of players like Vardy, Madinson, Ndidi, Barnes, Teilemans. Not because of Evans and Fofana.

As for your comment about wasting 30m on Saliba I tend to agree. But that's due at this point to mismanagement of him. I've seen nothing in the couple of games I've watched him play to suggest he isn't capable of playing at EPL or EL or Cup level. He's looked a class above in the under age games I've watched. And nothing that warrants replacing him.

My point is have a defence that can defend and be relied upon. That is secure to not have to rely on the wingers dropping deep and midfield sitting deep and CM continuing to look sideways and back to maintain possession for fear of conceding possession.

Leicester create more and get more shot away than us. United could have beat Leeds 10 the other day. There's an emphasis on scoring and creating that's coached.

Our stats of less shots than all but 1 relegation fighting team and 0 creativity would indicate that progressive play is being neglected or not promoted in order to make the team defensively better as a unit but at a cost.

Again it depends on budget and sales. I would address midfield first and possibly a striker/forward player then a CB. But I believe if Saliba doesn't somehow appear in the first team we will need one.
 
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