Arsenio Venger
Well-Known Member
Arturo Vidal is the closest you'll get to the everything midfielder
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The Midfield Enigma
- Thread starter Aevi
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carlito'sway
Established Member
Terrific tactical analysis of Coq role and Arsenal set up in MF.
" If ever there was a better example of Wengerism at its most extreme, then it is probably the “Coqzorla” partnership. The manager has always been seen as an idealist, but the charge levelled at him recently has been one of a fundamentalist, especially where it concerns tactics. Indeed, with the rise of coaching literacy and the prevailing idea of playing through the holding midfielder, the strategy called in Spanish “Salida Lavolpiana” (named after the Argentinian coach Ricardo La Volpe and as popularised in recent times by Pep Guardiola). The idea is that the pivote drops deep, in between the two centre-backs, stretching the play sideways sending the full-backs up the pitch – this allows the team to create numerical superiorities ahead of the ball.
Arsenal don’t do this. Instead, Wenger asks the central midfielders to push up the pitch, creating space in the middle of the pitch for the centre-backs to pass through. The idea thus, is to push the opponents back with them to discourage the press, or if they do, it opens a large space in the middle for Mesut Özil, Santi Cazorla or one of the wide midfielders, like Alexis Sanchez, to drop into. Francis Coquelin’s role in this is to be a decoy, not really offering himself on the ball, but moving all over the pitch to take the opposition markers with him. Against Southampton, he did this many times, taking up positions between-the-lines with his back to goal as if he was ready to receive the ball, but instead the centre-backs would use him to find Santi Cazorla unmarked. The pass chart below illustrates this dynamic nicely, showing how Coquelin tends to vacate the space in the middle and that Cazorla then is able to move into it.
" Granit Xhaka remained on the bench, rested for the game against PSG, though it’s hard not to see that he how can offer more orthodox solutions to Arsenal bringing the ball out. However, he’ll also have to submit to the way Wenger wants the team to build up because the key in his philosophy is verticality. Xhaka might come towards the ball more often than others, but he also would be expected to push up the pitch at times so Arsenal can play more of the game in the opposition half.
A Xhaka-Cazorla partnership just seems eminently more suited to what Wenger is trying to achieve. Because imagine now, Cazorla in the positions that Coquelin is in between-the-lines. It just offers so many more solutions. And if he wanted to increase Arsenal’s ball-winning capabilities, he can put Mohamed Elneny in the side in front of Xhaka. For now it seems, we must put up with this particular Wengerism, and hope the individual quality there is in the team shines through.
http://arseblog.com/2016/09/tactics-column-looking-coquelins-role-vs-southampton/
" If ever there was a better example of Wengerism at its most extreme, then it is probably the “Coqzorla” partnership. The manager has always been seen as an idealist, but the charge levelled at him recently has been one of a fundamentalist, especially where it concerns tactics. Indeed, with the rise of coaching literacy and the prevailing idea of playing through the holding midfielder, the strategy called in Spanish “Salida Lavolpiana” (named after the Argentinian coach Ricardo La Volpe and as popularised in recent times by Pep Guardiola). The idea is that the pivote drops deep, in between the two centre-backs, stretching the play sideways sending the full-backs up the pitch – this allows the team to create numerical superiorities ahead of the ball.
Arsenal don’t do this. Instead, Wenger asks the central midfielders to push up the pitch, creating space in the middle of the pitch for the centre-backs to pass through. The idea thus, is to push the opponents back with them to discourage the press, or if they do, it opens a large space in the middle for Mesut Özil, Santi Cazorla or one of the wide midfielders, like Alexis Sanchez, to drop into. Francis Coquelin’s role in this is to be a decoy, not really offering himself on the ball, but moving all over the pitch to take the opposition markers with him. Against Southampton, he did this many times, taking up positions between-the-lines with his back to goal as if he was ready to receive the ball, but instead the centre-backs would use him to find Santi Cazorla unmarked. The pass chart below illustrates this dynamic nicely, showing how Coquelin tends to vacate the space in the middle and that Cazorla then is able to move into it.
" Granit Xhaka remained on the bench, rested for the game against PSG, though it’s hard not to see that he how can offer more orthodox solutions to Arsenal bringing the ball out. However, he’ll also have to submit to the way Wenger wants the team to build up because the key in his philosophy is verticality. Xhaka might come towards the ball more often than others, but he also would be expected to push up the pitch at times so Arsenal can play more of the game in the opposition half.
A Xhaka-Cazorla partnership just seems eminently more suited to what Wenger is trying to achieve. Because imagine now, Cazorla in the positions that Coquelin is in between-the-lines. It just offers so many more solutions. And if he wanted to increase Arsenal’s ball-winning capabilities, he can put Mohamed Elneny in the side in front of Xhaka. For now it seems, we must put up with this particular Wengerism, and hope the individual quality there is in the team shines through.
http://arseblog.com/2016/09/tactics-column-looking-coquelins-role-vs-southampton/
Highbury Rock City
Active Member
A parnership of either Cazorla or Elneny with Xhaka is quit obviously the best one. They fit in the role as deep lying midfielders. Good with the ball and covers alot of ground. Then of course there has been some criticism of Cazorlas ability to tackle, but from what've seen he's been pretty good at the defensive part as well.
The enimga right now is Wenger's desire to play Ramsey. If he's going to be picked as CM continuously, there will be trouble, sadly.
The enimga right now is Wenger's desire to play Ramsey. If he's going to be picked as CM continuously, there will be trouble, sadly.
Highbury Rock City
Active Member
But then again we haven't seen that much at all of a potential Ramsey-Xhaka-partnership. It could work, but then Rambo needs to get much more disciplined.
carlito'sway
Established Member
That should be the last resort. As the writer mentioned, Xhaka-Santi is by far the best option.
N
NotAUserName
Guest
Xhaka-Cazorla can work against teams that mostly sit back but I'll just never buy into the idea of it being our default, especially in a two-man midfield. I think the lack of athleticism is a real issue and any midfield worth their salt should be able to run rings around them.
Take the Watford match for example. We were brilliant in the first half and everything flowed but as soon as Watford decided to play in the second half, we couldn't cope. The biggest irony is that Xhaka and Cazorla are probably our two best midfielders when it comes to ball retention and yet, they couldn't pass their way against Watford in the second half.
Take the Watford match for example. We were brilliant in the first half and everything flowed but as soon as Watford decided to play in the second half, we couldn't cope. The biggest irony is that Xhaka and Cazorla are probably our two best midfielders when it comes to ball retention and yet, they couldn't pass their way against Watford in the second half.
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carlito'sway
Established Member
Don't think the Watford game was a good example to what you want to point out. They played very well together by all accounts. That was also their first full game in CM.
Sykes
Active Member
Xhaka - Cazorla pivot is a disaster waiting to happen defensively. Sure you could say with both being able to keep the ball, we'd be fine, but think back to the game against west brom last season where santi - Arteta played together. We got bullied and ended up losing.
For me, Xhaka - Elneny/Ramsey is the best pivot. We need someone energetic and decent on the ball alongside Xhaka just like he had with Dahoud back in BMB.
For me, Xhaka - Elneny/Ramsey is the best pivot. We need someone energetic and decent on the ball alongside Xhaka just like he had with Dahoud back in BMB.
IndyCanada
Active Member
Honestly think this will be our biggest issue this season. We need the right balance and some of the players just havent been together long enough to develop a solid chemistry
carlito'sway
Established Member
I really don't get these cliches : "energetic" and decent on the ball..... No, we need intelligent, technical and positionaly aware footballers, not "energetic" i.e, running around like headless chickens.
By the way comparing Santi-Arteta to Santi-Xhaka is a bit silly. Specially last year when Mikel was on his last legs.
Sykes
Active Member
Well replace Mikel with Santi. When I mean energetic, I'm talking of your Khediras, Vidals, Rakitic etc not your Lee Cattermoles and Scott Parkers.
I can't imagine Xhaka - Arteta playing against Chelsea or Man united. I hope Wenger isn't stupid enough to try it.
Comparing Xhaka to the Arteta of last season is like comparing Walcott to Henry.
Not to mention if it's the game I'm thinking of it was a heavily depleted side with Gibbs playing as a WF. Arteta also came off injured which shows just how bad he was that season and we were fractions away from securing a point.
Cazorla is fine defensively and usually puts in the tackles and interceptions.
Enfield
Established Member
You know the way Ramsey stomped all over the Euros as a CM. Ask yourself why he was so good. Imo he was given a free role to basically to whatever he wanted.
I think thats a good starting point to get the most out of Ramsey. You can basically play Özil in the stands and he will still be class. Why not push him a little wide and allow Ramsey rampage through the middle.
I think thats a good starting point to get the most out of Ramsey. You can basically play Özil in the stands and he will still be class. Why not push him a little wide and allow Ramsey rampage through the middle.
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
I like the range Xhaka has shown for us so far, but I can't remember another big money buy that has solved so few problems. Were we really crying out for someone who's biggest strength is his eye for a raking forward pass?
Yet here we are, still practically in the dark, and not even sure if we're any better off at all.
FFS!!
Yet here we are, still practically in the dark, and not even sure if we're any better off at all.
FFS!!
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
I like that you want to see Ramsey utilised Properly , but on all known form for us from a wide position, Özil just hasn't worked. Who'd track back for him? Do many world class No.10's get asked to track back from wide positions? He just can't influence the game enough from wide.
carlito'sway
Established Member
Indeed. Santi carries his share of defensive duties very well in addition to being the MF leader. Some are so stuck in their cliches and stereotypes that they can't see reality.
carlito'sway
Established Member
You are losing me mate....I would not call Khedira "energetic".....He is strong, cerebral, tactically astute but not what I would describe energetic. Ditto for a Rakitic.
Anyway, I would trust Wenger to make the right call and if he picks Xhaka-Santi, I am sure he knows why and I will be totally fine with it, since i can clearly see the rationale.
redanddread
The stone that the builders refuse
We were certainly looking for that type of player at the base of our midfield. A DLP/DM hybrid for 100% sure.I like the range Xhaka has shown for us so far, but I can't remember another big money buy that has solved so few problems. Were we really crying out for someone who's biggest strength is his eye for a raking forward pass?
Yet here we are, still practically in the dark, and not even sure if we're any better off at all.
It needs to be a midfield three. You cant have Xhaka on the bench with players like Ox & Walcott on the pitch. Doubt theres any chance of a switch though or the jack loan would never happen.
Bergkamp120
Active Member
Coquelin is a nice squad player but he can not be in the first eleven over the likes of Xhaka and Elneny. Coquelin provides absolutely nothing going forward, he struggles to even make simple passes at times and he wasn't very good defensively today either. His positioning was awful, he had no presence in midfield, and we just couldn't retain possession with him in there. Verrati and Krychowiak were running circles around him.
Maybe Arsène doesn't want to play Xhaka with Cazorla and is waiting to play him with Ramsey but I would rather see Xhaka/Elneny then the sh*t midfield that we saw in the first half today.
Maybe Arsène doesn't want to play Xhaka with Cazorla and is waiting to play him with Ramsey but I would rather see Xhaka/Elneny then the sh*t midfield that we saw in the first half today.
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