Country: England
Player:Saliba
At last some real stats. Excellent stuff.
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PL | Arsenal v Manchester United| December 2, 2017 | 17:30 GMT | BT Sport
- Thread starter A_G
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Country: England
Player:Saliba
NieThePiet
Loves Overhyping Our Rivals
Somebody has the second "stonewall" pen in a clip?
I just know the Welbeck pen, 100% pen. But arsenal fans wrote, there was a second one on lacazette(?) too.
I just know the Welbeck pen, 100% pen. But arsenal fans wrote, there was a second one on lacazette(?) too.
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- #1,703
Country: Iceland
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
Laca knocks the ball to his right and makes it look like the player got the ball ffs! That's most probably why it wasnt given. A video replay gives the pen imo, although I know officials seem to make up their own rules in situations where the player 'fouled' ends up miles away from the ball; in this case, off the pitch. Should still be a pen though.
Valencia and Lingard x2... what a **** pair of players to concede to.
Losing to Yanited is the worst feeling in football. Especially when they didn't deserve to win. Over 30 shots?! 30?! We don't even do that to relegation threatened teams sometimes.
De Gea made unreal saves but we're also guilty of poor finishing. Xhaka in the first half, on his favoured foot, should've scored. Sanchez should've scored the follow up to Lacazette's saved effort. Maaaybeee Ramsey could've been quicker to the ball in the first half too, when his shot was blocked.
All I know, is that we battered Yanited and managed to lose 3-1. It stings and will sting for a while.
Losing to Yanited is the worst feeling in football. Especially when they didn't deserve to win. Over 30 shots?! 30?! We don't even do that to relegation threatened teams sometimes.
De Gea made unreal saves but we're also guilty of poor finishing. Xhaka in the first half, on his favoured foot, should've scored. Sanchez should've scored the follow up to Lacazette's saved effort. Maaaybeee Ramsey could've been quicker to the ball in the first half too, when his shot was blocked.
All I know, is that we battered Yanited and managed to lose 3-1. It stings and will sting for a while.
Dokaka
AM's resident Hammer
"Defensive errors" is probably the most useless "stat" in the game ffs
What is a defensive error? Is leaving your CBs alone in an ocean of space a defensive error? Is having your FBs always sit on the line of the oppositions defense a defensive error? Is having your central midfielder play the majority of the game as a striker a defensive error? Is not adjusting quickly enough to a misplaced pass a defensive error?
A stat like this tells you nothing when it's not A: Explained B: Entirely in the eyes of the beholder. The whole point of stats is to remove the subjective element from the game, and when your entire stat is based around what the person thought was or wasn't an error, it's quite frankly utterly ****ing useless.
Defending is a team effort and it doesn't start and stop with a personal 1vs1 duel. This isn't 90's Basketball ffs. You always defend, even when you're attacking. Giving the ball away on the oppositions pitch when you're way too pushed up is a massive defensive error.
Stats can't be subjective. You cannot quantify an error as it isn't black or white.
Country: Canada
The Welbeck non call was wayyyyy worse. How was that not given?
Country: England
Player:Saliba
That's two stonewall penalties. It's a cruel game when you see the smirk on Mourinho's face.
Dokaka
AM's resident Hammer
The Welbeck call was blatant, surprised there hasn't been more talk about it. Clear penalty, hard to see how it wasn't given.
Country: Canada
Look at our defence for the first goal. Despite Koscielny's horror hospital pass we've still got adequate cover. How do 4 professional defenders get sucked in to the one player at this level?
Country: England
Player:Saliba
Something is better than nothing. Giving the ball away directly to an opponent will be a subset of those stats."Defensive errors" is probably the most useless "stat" in the game ffs
What is a defensive error? Is leaving your CBs alone in an ocean of space a defensive error? Is having your FBs always sit on the line of the oppositions defense a defensive error? Is having your central midfielder play the majority of the game as a striker a defensive error? Is not adjusting quickly enough to a misplaced pass a defensive error?
A stat like this tells you nothing when it's not A: Explained B: Entirely in the eyes of the beholder. The whole point of stats is to remove the subjective element from the game, and when your entire stat is based around what the person thought was or wasn't an error, it's quite frankly utterly ****ing useless.
Defending is a team effort and it doesn't start and stop with a personal 1vs1 duel. This isn't 90's Basketball ffs. You always defend, even when you're attacking. Giving the ball away on the oppositions pitch when you're way too pushed up is a massive defensive error.
Stats can't be subjective. You cannot quantify an error as it isn't black or white.
Mustafi had plenty of time and could have passed back to the goalie if nothing else. He just dithered. It had nothing to do with the shape or the position of the rest of the team.
Defending is a team effort. But you don't blame the other defenders the tactics or the manager for a stupid decision of one player.
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- #1,713
Why Trilly?
Dokaka
AM's resident Hammer
It still doesn't change the fact that a statistic can't be subjective. How you quantify an error differs from the next person. Just look at the different threads on here with people arguing who was at fault for the various things in the game.
It isn't just exclusive to football tbf, trying to make stats viable for judging defensive performances is a struggle even in the most fleshed out statistics focused sports like basketball.
Statistics lose their meaning when there's subjectivity involved, which is why very few stats actually tells any kind of story in football.
- Thread starter
- #1,715
Squawka's defensive error stat is based on the number of times you relinquish possession leading to a goal. Certainly the first two goals yesterday fall under that category.
al-Ustaadh
👳♂️ Figuring out how to delete my account 👳♂️
Look at our defence for the first goal. Despite Koscielny's horror hospital pass we've still got adequate cover. How do 4 professional defenders get sucked in to the one player at this level?
Player's of Pogba's quality will do that. Same with Hazard, Messi, etc. It takes more than one defender to stop them in open play.
Country: Canada
Agreed the star players have that effect however the fact that FOUR of our defenders got sucked in is a critical error from our defence.
Country: Iceland
Why Trilly?
He said yesterday that other top teams never do defensive errors.
Dokaka
AM's resident Hammer
Then they need to reevaluate how they count that, because - as hopefully anyone on here will immediately agree with - the amount of times you concede goals to being too pushed up and then lose the ball is certainly higher than that stat would make you believe. My guess is they don't count it as a mistake if you lose the ball in the final third, but with the way you line up, losing the ball outside the penalty area is often just as bad as losing it in your own half.
These stats just don't work, honestly. Defending is too complex to put down into stats. One person could argue it was Kos mistake for letting Pogba blow by him, but where was Kola? Why was there only one midfielder in the box when Pogba made the pass? Those are largely the result of tactical decision and won't go down as mistakes.
I'd argue every time a team breaks against Arsenal and it's literally just the back 2/3 vs. 3 attackers, it's a mistake. But it doesn't count as a mistake in these stats.
You're right and that's why I said "post Campbell /Toure". Consistency of good defending has been an issue after these two left and it's easy and sometimes fair to blame Wenger. I just question the calibre of CB he has purchased from 2007 to the present. Kolo shows what Wenger can do with a player with the right physical and psychological "DNA".
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