baccy_man
Established Member
I don't think the club have got the bottle to sack Wenger, he controls too much of the running of the club and they would have to do some work and take the flak if he wasn't there.
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Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class
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GDeep™
League is very weak
They don't have to sack him though? He's out of contract in two weeks ffs.
They don't have to do anything to get rid off Wenger, can't be more easier.
AL the gooner
Questionable film taste
This
They havent got a clue how to run a football club, after years hiding behind Wenger, imagine having to earn your pay for a change.
Theyd be lost without him.
Red&Dreadjm
Active Member
You're right up to a point but you haven't paid in advance for a season of Guy ritchie films, which if ****, you'd most definitely have a right to complain about. Furthermore, football & films are a different kettle of fish in that football is like a religion to its fans and up & down the country, worldwide there is a symbiotic relationship between the club & the fan. The club's lifeblood is it fans and as such they do have a right to complain, should they wish, as it's their money that directly funds the coffers of the club.
Furthermore, fans can't switch allegiance to another club just like that, and you know that. Your argument is exactly what the real fans are complaining about in that they are treated just like another customer, which is not the true underlying basis of the relationship between fan & their teams.
The manner in which the fan goes about complaining is another story though.
Red&Dreadjm
Active Member
Would they? The club was well managed before Arsène arrived. I agree he has many, too many responsibilities but maybe they have a slight inkling about what to do. That they have allowed Arsène oversight of everything football related is no doubt but I have to think that between Gazidis and co they might just have a clue about how to run the club.
AL the gooner
Questionable film taste
Different club back then, it had people who understood football.
They can run the business sure, do they know what sport we play though.
I dread to think of a meeting between Kroenke and Gazidis to discuss a new manager, bob ****ing bradley would end up getting the job.
scytheavatar
Established Member
They are lost even with him...... ultimately they are at the highest level of the club, if they don't have it in them to run a football club we will be pulled down sooner or latter.
Red&Dreadjm
Active Member
I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but Gazidis does have many years of service at a very senior level in the football world - I have to think they'd be able to come up with a better option than Bob ****ing Bradley though...
Latymer
Member
This could mean he's staying. Might need an AM **** watch
97% sure you work for the club
It would be rather a sorry case if he didn't, tbh.
Kingslayer
Forza Milan
Arsenal begin their new era as Arsène Wenger blinks first and accepts that change is coming at the Emirates even if he doesn't leave this summer
By Rob Draper for The Mail on Sunday22:30 BST 20 May 2017, updated 01:36 BST 21 May 2017
If he wants to keep his job, Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger has had to accept that change is coming
In the coming months, Arsenal are expected to begin appointing support staff such as medical personnel and sporting administrators, which will essentially form the infrastructure of the post-Wenger club.
Maybe no one will actually be called sporting director. That much Wenger has ensured. But if he wants to keep his job — and he undoubtedly does — then 67-year-old Wenger has had to accept that change is coming.
Sources within the club believe that two members of the six-man board were reluctant for Wenger to carry on, or at least were not prepared to allow him to do so unchallenged.
And under pressure from a board which is more resilient than it has been before — or perhaps less supine — Wenger has had to bend. For Wenger is leaving. It may not be this summer but the club are gearing up for life without him.
The changes which come are designed to prepare for life after him. And if a two-year deal is finalised in the next 10 days, it will be the last. It would take an extraordinary revival for him to extend his tenure into his 70s.
What is in place is a deal to pave the way to succession, to avoid the problems Manchester United had when Sir Alex Ferguson left and infrastructure was found to be negligible because, fundamentally, the place had been run on the force of Sir Alex’s personality and many of the details were in his head.
Disquiet about the succession in the boardroom is stronger than it has ever been. It was evident back in April when chief executive Ivan Gazidis met with the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust and told fans that the manager had to become a ‘catalyst for change’. He also told fans, which has not previously been reported, that ‘Arsenal are not where we want us to be’. That much is obvious but it is also a significant admission of failings. Where the blame lies, is less clear.
The bid meant Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke would have doubled his money but he will not sell the club to the Uzbek oligarch
The waters were further muddied by the news breaking on Friday evening of Alisher Usmanov’s £1.54billion attempted takeover. Many fans would be ready to welcome any change even if it came in the form of an Uzbek oligarch, who was imprisoned from 1980-1986 during the Soviet era for fraud and embezzlement, a conviction which was overturned by the Uzbek courts in 2000, meaning he would pass any ‘fit and proper person’ test.
But owner Stan Kroenke is not selling to Usmanov. The offer on the table would have doubled his money but that does not appear to be the issue.
Other individuals are also said to be eying up Kroenke’s 67 per cent stake. But sources close to the owner say he is in for the long haul, wants to win the Premier League and to establish Arsenal as a force in the Champions League. If so, the message has not been clearly communicated over the last six years. Arsenal appear to have been managed like a pension fund, maximising return on investment with minimum risk.
Some of the worst aspects of Kroenke’s tenure have been moderated. The highly controversial £3m annual fee paid to ‘Kroenke Sports & Entertainment’ in 2015 was quietly dropped last year. At one Annual General Meeting, shareholders had quizzed the board on the details of the tendering process which had determined just how ‘Kroenke Sports & Entertainment’ had been selected as the best firm to provide these consultancy services. Answer came there none.
Of course what is of principal concern to Arsenal fans at present is their failure to challenge for the league title and to progress beyond the Champions League last 16. Now, for the first time in Wenger’s 21-year reign, they may well fall out of the gilded elite.
Therein lies the conundrum of the Wenger years. It is a testament to his excellence that they have a record of consecutive participation in the competition which is bettered only by Real Madrid. And it is an indication of his limitations that they have reached only two semi-finals and one final in that time.
Yet even this season could still end relatively satisfactorily. Should Liverpool slip up, Arsenal finish fourth and they win the FA Cup, it would be hard to say it had been awful. But finish fifth — as it is expected they will — and end up with a 3-0 defeat by Chelsea, then the atmosphere at Wembley next Saturday is likely to turn poisonous among Arsenal fans.
+12
Already this season almost the entire away end were chanting, ‘You’re not fit to wear the shirt’ and ‘We want Wenger Out!’ during the particularly calamitous performance at Crystal Palace.
This season there have been plenty of moments which seemed to qualify as a nadir. When Arsenal capitulated at West Brom in March — shortly before Gazidis briefed fans on the ‘catalyst for change’ — Wenger announced that a decision on his future was coming ‘very soon’. That was news to club officials and was certainly not part of a joined-up communications strategy in sync with the board.
It now seems like it was a classic deflection from an awful performance because, in reality, it was not Wenger’s decision to make. Chairman Chips Keswick had emphasised just a week before the West Brom defeat that the decision would be ’mutual’.
+12
After Arsenal capitulated at The Hawthorns against West Brom, Wenger said a decision on his future was coming ‘very soon’
+12
The Frenchman has faced calls from sections of the club's support to leave this summer after more than 20 years in charge
Many interpreted that as the board bending to Wenger. However, insiders at Arsenal believe that the delay in making an announcement over the last two months has been caused by the board and Wenger disagreeing over the structural changes required to take the club forward. For if Wenger is staying there has been no good strategic reason to delay the announcement. In fact quite the reverse.
The indecision is causing turmoil within the club. Transfer targets being lined up cannot be secured because agents wish to know who the manager will be and no one can give a definitive answer. Staff are unsure of their own future, many of them being tied to the Wenger regime. It seems inconceivable now, but if the board meeting after the FA Cup final were to decide that Wenger’s time were up, Arsenal would go into June without a manager and no major signings in place. It would make David Moyes’ takeover from Ferguson look like an orderly succession.
The week ahead is fundamental to determining how one of the great figures of English football does eventually depart the stage. Wembley is a stadium which has many happy memories. He has secured three of his record-breaking six FA Cup victories there, including that first memorable double in 1998.
But it also the place where Arsenal fans came closest to an outright revolution. It was April 2014, the last time Wenger’s contract was up for renewal. Eight minutes were left in a semi-final against Championship Wigan and Arsenal were losing 1-0. The mood was extraordinarily ugly among Arsenal fans. Then Per Mertesacker scored, Arsenal scraped through on penalties and eventually beat Hull in the final, after trailing 2-0.
Had he lost either game, those close to Wenger concede it would have been hard to carry on. The stakes seem just as high now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4525728/Arsenal-begin-new-era-Arsène-Wenger-blinks-first.html
By Rob Draper for The Mail on Sunday22:30 BST 20 May 2017, updated 01:36 BST 21 May 2017
If he wants to keep his job, Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger has had to accept that change is coming
- The club are expected to soon appoint support staff which will form the infrastructure of a post-Wenger club
- The London club are determined to avoid the problems Manchester United had when Sir Alex Ferguson left
- Arsenal face Everton in their final league match on Sunday in serious danger of missing out on the top four
In the coming months, Arsenal are expected to begin appointing support staff such as medical personnel and sporting administrators, which will essentially form the infrastructure of the post-Wenger club.
Maybe no one will actually be called sporting director. That much Wenger has ensured. But if he wants to keep his job — and he undoubtedly does — then 67-year-old Wenger has had to accept that change is coming.
Sources within the club believe that two members of the six-man board were reluctant for Wenger to carry on, or at least were not prepared to allow him to do so unchallenged.
And under pressure from a board which is more resilient than it has been before — or perhaps less supine — Wenger has had to bend. For Wenger is leaving. It may not be this summer but the club are gearing up for life without him.
The changes which come are designed to prepare for life after him. And if a two-year deal is finalised in the next 10 days, it will be the last. It would take an extraordinary revival for him to extend his tenure into his 70s.
What is in place is a deal to pave the way to succession, to avoid the problems Manchester United had when Sir Alex Ferguson left and infrastructure was found to be negligible because, fundamentally, the place had been run on the force of Sir Alex’s personality and many of the details were in his head.
Disquiet about the succession in the boardroom is stronger than it has ever been. It was evident back in April when chief executive Ivan Gazidis met with the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust and told fans that the manager had to become a ‘catalyst for change’. He also told fans, which has not previously been reported, that ‘Arsenal are not where we want us to be’. That much is obvious but it is also a significant admission of failings. Where the blame lies, is less clear.
The bid meant Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke would have doubled his money but he will not sell the club to the Uzbek oligarch
The waters were further muddied by the news breaking on Friday evening of Alisher Usmanov’s £1.54billion attempted takeover. Many fans would be ready to welcome any change even if it came in the form of an Uzbek oligarch, who was imprisoned from 1980-1986 during the Soviet era for fraud and embezzlement, a conviction which was overturned by the Uzbek courts in 2000, meaning he would pass any ‘fit and proper person’ test.
But owner Stan Kroenke is not selling to Usmanov. The offer on the table would have doubled his money but that does not appear to be the issue.
Other individuals are also said to be eying up Kroenke’s 67 per cent stake. But sources close to the owner say he is in for the long haul, wants to win the Premier League and to establish Arsenal as a force in the Champions League. If so, the message has not been clearly communicated over the last six years. Arsenal appear to have been managed like a pension fund, maximising return on investment with minimum risk.
Some of the worst aspects of Kroenke’s tenure have been moderated. The highly controversial £3m annual fee paid to ‘Kroenke Sports & Entertainment’ in 2015 was quietly dropped last year. At one Annual General Meeting, shareholders had quizzed the board on the details of the tendering process which had determined just how ‘Kroenke Sports & Entertainment’ had been selected as the best firm to provide these consultancy services. Answer came there none.
Of course what is of principal concern to Arsenal fans at present is their failure to challenge for the league title and to progress beyond the Champions League last 16. Now, for the first time in Wenger’s 21-year reign, they may well fall out of the gilded elite.
Therein lies the conundrum of the Wenger years. It is a testament to his excellence that they have a record of consecutive participation in the competition which is bettered only by Real Madrid. And it is an indication of his limitations that they have reached only two semi-finals and one final in that time.
Yet even this season could still end relatively satisfactorily. Should Liverpool slip up, Arsenal finish fourth and they win the FA Cup, it would be hard to say it had been awful. But finish fifth — as it is expected they will — and end up with a 3-0 defeat by Chelsea, then the atmosphere at Wembley next Saturday is likely to turn poisonous among Arsenal fans.
+12
Already this season almost the entire away end were chanting, ‘You’re not fit to wear the shirt’ and ‘We want Wenger Out!’ during the particularly calamitous performance at Crystal Palace.
This season there have been plenty of moments which seemed to qualify as a nadir. When Arsenal capitulated at West Brom in March — shortly before Gazidis briefed fans on the ‘catalyst for change’ — Wenger announced that a decision on his future was coming ‘very soon’. That was news to club officials and was certainly not part of a joined-up communications strategy in sync with the board.
It now seems like it was a classic deflection from an awful performance because, in reality, it was not Wenger’s decision to make. Chairman Chips Keswick had emphasised just a week before the West Brom defeat that the decision would be ’mutual’.
+12
After Arsenal capitulated at The Hawthorns against West Brom, Wenger said a decision on his future was coming ‘very soon’
+12
The Frenchman has faced calls from sections of the club's support to leave this summer after more than 20 years in charge
Many interpreted that as the board bending to Wenger. However, insiders at Arsenal believe that the delay in making an announcement over the last two months has been caused by the board and Wenger disagreeing over the structural changes required to take the club forward. For if Wenger is staying there has been no good strategic reason to delay the announcement. In fact quite the reverse.
The indecision is causing turmoil within the club. Transfer targets being lined up cannot be secured because agents wish to know who the manager will be and no one can give a definitive answer. Staff are unsure of their own future, many of them being tied to the Wenger regime. It seems inconceivable now, but if the board meeting after the FA Cup final were to decide that Wenger’s time were up, Arsenal would go into June without a manager and no major signings in place. It would make David Moyes’ takeover from Ferguson look like an orderly succession.
The week ahead is fundamental to determining how one of the great figures of English football does eventually depart the stage. Wembley is a stadium which has many happy memories. He has secured three of his record-breaking six FA Cup victories there, including that first memorable double in 1998.
But it also the place where Arsenal fans came closest to an outright revolution. It was April 2014, the last time Wenger’s contract was up for renewal. Eight minutes were left in a semi-final against Championship Wigan and Arsenal were losing 1-0. The mood was extraordinarily ugly among Arsenal fans. Then Per Mertesacker scored, Arsenal scraped through on penalties and eventually beat Hull in the final, after trailing 2-0.
Had he lost either game, those close to Wenger concede it would have been hard to carry on. The stakes seem just as high now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4525728/Arsenal-begin-new-era-Arsène-Wenger-blinks-first.html
karl
Well-Known Member
I accepted he is staying a while back and there is nothing to be done. My biggest hope is that somehow all the Ramsey/Walcott/Wislhere type players that held us back for years are sold.
The early part of this summer is the time to spend on new players. With all the new money washing into the game from tv, Champions League is almost irrelevant from a finance point of view. Leave offers until the end of the summer and everyone will be used to the higher fees and prices will go up.
The early part of this summer is the time to spend on new players. With all the new money washing into the game from tv, Champions League is almost irrelevant from a finance point of view. Leave offers until the end of the summer and everyone will be used to the higher fees and prices will go up.
say yes
forum master baiter
Will piss me off so much if he gets a new contract.
Have no faith that Wenger will do what is necessary to turn this club around.
Club can leak this 'Wenger has accepted change' bs all they want. We all know he hasn't and that the club hasn't even looked into the possibility of an alternative manager. Spineless.
Have no faith that Wenger will do what is necessary to turn this club around.
Club can leak this 'Wenger has accepted change' bs all they want. We all know he hasn't and that the club hasn't even looked into the possibility of an alternative manager. Spineless.
He hasn't accepted change. They wanted to get a Director of Football for him to work alongside and he has somehow managed to make them accept his watered down version of one. It's ridiculous and makes the board look weak.
Preacher
Always Crying
Agree. I have the same thoughts. Another 2 years will be wasted.
Let's hope, that Usmanov or someone else will take club's control from Kroenke.
Maybe Wenger would still remain as Arsenal manager, but he would be on shorter leach and failure wouldn't be rewarded like now.
And for sure fans wouldn't ignored at the same level like now.
Country: Scotland
So it appears likely he is staying. Hopefully we've closely studied Southampton and implemented similar structures that have worked so well for them. They can change manager without a blip we need to be aiming for the same thing.
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
Interesting choice of trenches. I'd have gone large and just said Mariana. What's your link to the Philippines?
Deathstroke
The Terminator
Toast
Established Member
This club is such a shambles. Wenger is virtually guaranteed a new contract on the basis that we are completely unprepared for him to leave. The fact that the board are actually negotiating with Wenger about what changes he would accept indicates this as well. It's madness. What club let's a manager dictate its organisational structure? Especially if that manager's future is uncertain in the first place (though it isn't, really).
I don't think the changes are serious anyway. It's all window dressing since they're not creating roles, e.g. DoF, that will outrank and can overrule the manager. An independent head of the academy is a must as well. On the non-footballing side I'd ideally also like to see a marketing manager come in, since I don't believe we're doing enough on the sponsorship and brand exposure fronts.
So here's the conundrum we find ourselves in: Wenger can't leave because we're too dependent on him, but if he stays he'll in all likelihood prevent us from properly implementing the necessary reorganisation of the club, since that would involve massively downgrading the influence and power the manager wields at this club.
EDIT: Why is m a d n e s s censored?
I don't think the changes are serious anyway. It's all window dressing since they're not creating roles, e.g. DoF, that will outrank and can overrule the manager. An independent head of the academy is a must as well. On the non-footballing side I'd ideally also like to see a marketing manager come in, since I don't believe we're doing enough on the sponsorship and brand exposure fronts.
So here's the conundrum we find ourselves in: Wenger can't leave because we're too dependent on him, but if he stays he'll in all likelihood prevent us from properly implementing the necessary reorganisation of the club, since that would involve massively downgrading the influence and power the manager wields at this club.
EDIT: Why is m a d n e s s censored?
Last edited:
Toast
Established Member
I suppose one solution would be to create all the necessary roles and give them as much power as Wenger will allow (as ludicrous as that is). Then, after Wenger does leave, we expand the scope and powers of said roles so that the incoming manager is in charge of only the first team - as a manager should be.
I'd be ok with Wenger staying one more season if I had any faith in the board implementing this properly, but I don't. After all, they created this mess in the first place.
Do we let Wenger leave and take the plunge or do we give him another contract and push the plunge back a year or two?
I'd be ok with Wenger staying one more season if I had any faith in the board implementing this properly, but I don't. After all, they created this mess in the first place.
Do we let Wenger leave and take the plunge or do we give him another contract and push the plunge back a year or two?
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