"Come together ...right now ..."

[Pádraig]

For the record, the only reason I'm frustrated with Wenger is because he has failed to bring the one or two players who would have really helped us push on and win some trophies. Watching Arsenal play is incredibly enjoyable but I want to see the team be succesful: players like Fabregas, and those fans who pay to see Arsenal week, week out deserve it.

It doesn't matter how you look at it, we're not going to drop out of the big four. If we thought there was a chance of that happening why would we spend millions building a new 60,000 seater stadium knowing that there would be a huge debt to pay off after it all. Everyone at Arsenal knows that the club is guaranteed a top four finish and Champions League football for many seasons to come.

But it seems to me like the board and especially Wenger are more concerned with balancing the books than winning trophies. If he picks one up while making profits then it's just a bonus for him. Obviously it proves Wenger has the clubs best interests (well, sort of) at heart and is meticulous planning will mean that Arsenal will be a secure club for years to come but I can't see why he doesn't give some attention to the present.

I just want to hear Wenger say 'he will help us win trophies this season' after signing a player instead of 'he's another one for the future'.

 

[j'nuh]

Hate to crash the love-fest going on here but its pretty rich to lump the 'loyalists' and the people opposing Wenger into the same category when talking about coming together to support the club. Not that im playing into anyones hands by suggesting that critising Wenger means critising the club or lacking support - im all for people voicing their opinion if they think Wengers decisions are harming the club, and have done so myself numerous times.

When i have felt moved to get into debate recently on here recently though it has more often than not been because someone has critised Wengers intentions rather than his methods. All too often people have crossed the line by suggesting Wenger is intentionally holding back the club in favour of obscure and bizarre personal aims, we've had people question his mental health. At one point Mcintyre fully seriously suggested Wenger may be holding the club back in a bid to get David Dein back. If i remember correctly only me and Law took him up on this. I did so, and have done so in the past with similar things, not only out of a sense of annoyance but also out of a kind of sense of duty - if someone says something that is so obviously untrue and damaging about something you hold to be important to you obviously you seek to discredit it.

As such im not going to take kindly to when someone suggests i stop pulling people up on things like this in the interests of togetherness in the club as a whole - surely its in the interests of the club that, actually, more people did this?

 

[asajoseph]

This is all just hot air on a message board. Nobody should be censoring their opinions here just in case Arsène decided to spend the last couple of hours of the transfer window reading the Eboue thread, instead of signing Xabi Alonso.

For me, though I guess maybe I'm in the minority here, 'coming together' and 'supporting' is all about what you do on matchdays at the game - the opinions I express outside of that are kind of irrelevant, given that they'll probably never be read or listened to by anyone apart from those who chance upon this website. I know that people with all sorts of opinions go to our games, and I know that a lot of people who are far more disatisfied than me with the way that the club's run sing their hearts out for the team every saturday. And that's what 'supporting's' about - not who can justify the most positive opinion on a message board (not that being positive is always wrong, either!).

Of course, this all means different things for different people. I know there must be people on here whose sole experience of Arsenal is what they see on TV, and only interaction with other fans comes through message boards like this. I can't speak for them, or share their experience of what 'supporting' a club means, because it's not my own. But, for those of us who do are lucky enough to have the opportunity to actually make themselves heard by the team, in an albeit communal way, this is the usually the essence of being a supporter, and means more than the debates you can have in the office with your Chelsea-supporting colleagues, or which of us can come accross as the biggest pseudo-intellectual on a message board.

 

[_scorpion_]

What has supporting the team got to do with agreeing with the way the coach & the board are running the club atm?

2 different things IMHO.

Wouldn't be the first coach & board to drag a football club down the toilet with poor decisions & I'm not prepared to believe it cannot happen to us.

I don't think you can dispute that we have gone backwards since our last title. Whether you think it was/is neccessary or not is up to the individual. That's what opinions & message boards are for.

Does this mean I won't barrack for my team along with fellow gooners on match day? Offcourse not.

 

[qs]

Oh come on Rohit & DC bury the hatchet, And I call on Lancelot, J'nuh, Stiiphunn, Law, Ricky1985, MDGoonah, Dez, Morpho and the rest of the "In Wenger we trust" boys to do the same, the Arsenal Mania civil war is over.

Football is a funny old game and anything can happen. And Webdesignlab has even omitted his most important point. With the imminent arrival of Man City as Chel$ki Mk 2 the ground has shifted from under us all, Heh heh If I was a Man U supporter I'd be sh!tty as hell. :wink: Clucking bell! imagine if they'd bought Spuds? :shock: but those f**kers will do well enough with their cash injection from the vulgar Bulgar.

We need to put our petty doctrinal disputes behind us......

Is there money for Wenger to spend?
Should Wenger have spent and how much?
Trust Wenger/no don't?
Should we buy 1 DM or 1 CB or both & a goalkeeper?

It's all become irrelevant as the transfer market will get warped out of shape. We Wenger Skeptics have to accept that we cannot hope to compete in the transfer market even if we wanted to now, so Wenger is off the hook as it were. And you Wenger loyalists must accept that we can now never win the title again under these conditions. This situation won't change unless we get a real injection of funds and Wenger accepts that he must spend.

So lets all just relax and pull together and hope the boys can pull off a miracle and win one before we're surrounded on all sides by these financial leviathans, It may be the last chance we get for quite a while.

Yep the time for fighting over Wengers decisions and the boards policies is over. Now is the time to decide which players are **** and what formation is best and fight about that instead.

 

[tam1886]

Yep the time for fighting over Wengers decisions and the boards policies is over. Now is the time to decide which players are s**t and what formation is best and fight about that instead.

So..............how we going to do this?

Those for 4-5-1 on the left, those against on the right? Any objections to that?

 

[thegame24]

We have to go 442 against ****e teams and in home games.

Big away games

eduardo
supported by rvp and ade

nasri, song, fabs in midfield

or hav nasri support ade and putdiaby in midfield

 

[Dez]

Just a few things.

I will always back the team - as will anyone who loves the club enough to have earned the status of forum member.

The factional split amongst us fans isn't unhealthy. We all have opinions - some stronger than others and some expressed more eloquently than others. But we will stick together as Arsenal fans. I have been on forums where a range of fans from all clubs chatted and regardless of disagreements Arsenal fans would stick together in the face of criticism from outside. And regardless of our disagreements we will stick together - its not like there will be a schism amongst Arsenal fans.

The central difference between the two factions is Wenger's unwillingness to spend in the face of rivals spending big.

Biggus and his cohort will argue that our long term future is being jeopardised because of this refusal to spend - This is the central tenant of the factional dispute and is a point which has been vehemently argued time and time again.

The question is simple: can a club succeed in the current environment without large investment?

These are the big picture facts:
a) We won't have the power to compete financially with Manchester United, Chelsea and now Manchester City.
b) We have some of the best young players in the world.
c) Despite his faults there is no realistic option other than Wenger continuing in his position.

That I think we can agree on ... mostly.

 

[Biggus]

This is all just hot air on a message board. Nobody should be censoring their opinions here just in case Arsène decided to spend the last couple of hours of the transfer window reading the Eboue thread, instead of signing Xabi Alonso.

For me, though I guess maybe I'm in the minority here, 'coming together' and 'supporting' is all about what you do on matchdays at the game - the opinions I express outside of that are kind of irrelevant, given that they'll probably never be read or listened to by anyone apart from those who chance upon this website.

And yet here you are expressing your opinions in this thread on this website Asa, and they are very enjoyable to read, as are others, so they aren't irrelevant or "hot air" because they are read by real people who form real opinions about them.
Webdesignlab started a thread that expressed a real desire for all supporters to get behind the team, I applied it to one of the biggest issues we've had on this forum recently, one which you've contributed to really splendidly, Many things were said on both sides that I hope don't leave lasting scars of resentment. We must direct the energy and anger we all feel into support for the team in the stadiums, pubs, workplaces or on forums. It really doesn't matter if Wenger should/could have bought this player for 15M when soon we'll have to deal with 50M bids for Fabregas.

J'nuh- So what if people said nasty things about Wenger, He's a public figure and he will not read them to be personally offended, so get over it.

If anybody doesn't want to be part of the love-fest thread they don't have to be, they can start a "Wenger out" or an "In praise of Wenger" thread.

 

[Biggus]

The central difference between the two factions is Wenger's unwillingness to spend in the face of rivals spending big.

Biggus and his cohort will argue that our long term future is being jeopardised because of this refusal to spend - This is the central tenant of the factional dispute and is a point which has been vehemently argued time and time again.

Sorry to pull you up Dez. I can't speak for "my cohort" other people have minds and opinions of their own, but I've never mentioned the long term future (2+ years), as I believe it to be utterly unknowable and therefore impossible to plan for. Ergo I have consistently maintained that we should try to win everything possible now, and I believe I've been proven correct by recent events.

But this is not the thread for that discussion, if you want to talk about that start a "long term objective" thread. This is for cooling any anger towards fellow members that may have been caused by recent events.
I don't know it if it'll work, it depends if we can put a decent run together. If we don't of course the seething resentments will come bubbling back to the surface.

 

[Dez]

Implicitly though when you talk about dropping out of the champions league etc etc that implies that long term the outlook isn't good. Fair point I suppose though.

Anyway I think this thread shouldn't be about those disagreements but rather a celebration of the fact that we can disagree in a respectful manner.

 

[vin de guerre]

I have no doubt we can put a run together that will have the whole world and its dog salivating. The problem as usual will either occur during the wet/cold winter or when we pick up one too many injuries! I for one in Wenger trust and am happy to see what mystery tour he takes us on this season.
All this talk of who and how many we should sign is all highly passe now. We do the best with what we've got from here until January and as I have said before it is will be the same after the transfer window in January.

 

[14teranga]

This is all just hot air on a message board. Nobody should be censoring their opinions here just in case Arsène decided to spend the last couple of hours of the transfer window reading the Eboue thread, instead of signing Xabi Alonso.

For me, though I guess maybe I'm in the minority here, 'coming together' and 'supporting' is all about what you do on matchdays at the game - the opinions I express outside of that are kind of irrelevant, given that they'll probably never be read or listened to by anyone apart from those who chance upon this website. I know that people with all sorts of opinions go to our games, and I know that a lot of people who are far more disatisfied than me with the way that the club's run sing their hearts out for the team every saturday. And that's what 'supporting's' about - not who can justify the most positive opinion on a message board (not that being positive is always wrong, either!).

Of course, this all means different things for different people. I know there must be people on here whose sole experience of Arsenal is what they see on TV, and only interaction with other fans comes through message boards like this. I can't speak for them, or share their experience of what 'supporting' a club means, because it's not my own. But, for those of us who do are lucky enough to have the opportunity to actually make themselves heard by the team, in an albeit communal way, this is the usually the essence of being a supporter, and means more than the debates you can have in the office with your Chelsea-supporting colleagues, or which of us can come accross as the biggest pseudo-intellectual on a message board.

I understand your view of 'coming together', but arsenal-mania is a reference when it comes to asenal supporters opinion and state of emotion, so other fans come here to find things to bribe about us. I don't know for you guys, but some other fans often quote mania to have a laugh at me!

 

[belgianfan]

I think anyone of us supports arsenal from their heart. So eventhough we had our differences. It was all in a sensible debate. No hard feelings against anybody because I didn't really feel threatened or anything like that. Just another mans opinion.


We are not glory hunters, we all want our club to succeed. But I don't think any of us would go support another team. So let's just keep on discussing things with each other. Posting here is almost already a statement that you support your club, because you want to show your thoughts. Glory hunters just watch their team and decide to support another team if they don't like it. I support the arsenal but if diaby or denilson makes a mistake, hoho all hell breaks lose. Hehe

 

[irishgunnerz]

Nothing wrong with discussion here as its between genuine Arsenal Fans and every one here wants the club to do well. It'd be far worse if no one felt strong enough about the club to actually air their views.

 

[law]

I don't really understand this talk of burying the hatchet. Will stopping my opposition to people's discontent with this club increase my level of support? Not at all. I think it's very sensible that Webdesign only stated the negative opinions at the beginning of this post and can't for the life of me think why anyone would object to that. No one's going to think "Well I support Arsenal and I'm behind the policy the managers pursuing and believe the players are good enough but all the same I'm not going to get behind the team". What we have seen, and this is admittedly very rare, is people who support Arsenal but are highly discontent with the manager and squad saying they feel less enthusiasm to support our boys on match days. This is a shameful attitude and it's good to see that most people skeptical of the current state of the team can put there complaints to one side and still put everything into supporting the team on matchday. What this thread is useful as is a very commendable rallying cry to those who harbour discontents to forget about them and sing their hearts out when our XI players step out onto pitch every weekend.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

I understand your view of 'coming together', but arsenal-mania is a reference when it comes to asenal supporters opinion and state of emotion, so other fans come here to find things to bribe about us. I don't know for you guys, but some other fans often quote mania to have a laugh at me!

That's never happened to me, then again most people I know are more worried about their own clubs.

 

[the dawn raids]

there were a few weeks before the transfer season started where it was a ghost town in here. whose to say if were out of every competition by march like two years ago that many people will still be around until the last day to complain about where we finish?

basically, if you think theres a lot of *****ing on here now, wait til we finish 5th. and its quite concievable that this could be the year for that to happen.

 

[awooga83]

I don't think thier needs to be a censoring of peoples views Arsenal Mania is the best place for us to discuss what we think is wrong/right (notice I put wrong first must be my current mentality :wink: ) with the club better here amongst people with a similar passion rather then amongst rival fans or people who really don't care about it, there are lots of issues as fans that spark emotion in us and here is the best place to vent that and I think its healthy, it can go to far but aslong as people try to argue thier point and support it as well then I can't see a problem.

 

[jay-d]

I don't really understand this talk of burying the hatchet. Will stopping my opposition to people's discontent with this club increase my level of support? Not at all. I think it's very sensible that Webdesign only stated the negative opinions at the beginning of this post and can't for the life of me think why anyone would object to that. No one's going to think "Well I support Arsenal and I'm behind the policy the managers pursuing and believe the players are good enough but all the same I'm not going to get behind the team". What we have seen, and this is admittedly very rare, is people who support Arsenal but are highly discontent with the manager and squad saying they feel less enthusiasm to support our boys on match days. This is a shameful attitude and it's good to see that most people skeptical of the current state of the team can put there complaints to one side and still put everything into supporting the team on matchday. What this thread is useful as is a very commendable rallying cry to those who harbour discontents to forget about them and sing their hearts out when our XI players step out onto pitch every weekend.

Couldn't have put it better myself. My discontent is with Wengers policy, not the club. It doesn't at all affect the way I support them, I just believe Wengers policy and attitude is hurting the progress and stopping what could be a very succesful team from acheiving its full potential and winning things.