European Super League

[Rex Stone]

bars/viewing centers are where the overwhelming majority of Nigerians watch football, and these bars never put laliga matches on expect except for El Classico. And that was at the height of the Ronaldo-Messi rivalry. These days they barely put those on too because people just aren't even interested anymore.

Isn’t that partly because La Liga has been a banter league on the organisational side?

Terrible revenue sharing, poorly marketed for teams outside the big two.

Premier League was way ahead of the other big leagues in breaking through as a brand but a Super League can take it up another level if it gets the money and tv deals.

 

[bergholt]

Most likely what happens here is that the ESL starts without English clubs, but with maybe $2b a year pumped in from private equity for player salaries, to make sure that ESL clubs can be seriously salary competitive with the best in England. As we've seen with PSG or whoever, money gets you top players.

Then after a couple of years when too many of the good players are leaving the EPL and the English clubs are unable to compete, eventually the English clubs start caving and joining the ESL, and that's the point where it becomes the top comp, everyone watches it, TV rights start selling for a few billion a year, private equity makes their returns, national leagues are all undermined.

 

[Sanchez11]

Something will change eventually surely, you can’t have the current system with one league so much more financially dominant than every other, that’s not sustainable.

They demolished their own leagues by being greedy. Barca should be bankrupt!, Sky changed football the English league is unique.

 

[Macho]

Air of inevitability about awlla this methinks.

 

[akhil]

Well fair enough. But you are in the minority. Otherwise the championship league wouldn’t be so big. Napoli has played the best football in whole of Europe this season and I would bet majority here would watch Bayern vs Napoli than Southampton vs West Ham

You do realize Serie A is absolute garbage in terms of level. This banter Chelsea beat AC Milan in 2nd gear over both legs. Even Napoli lost against this version of Klopps Liverpool.
They make a 3rd of what the PL does and are closer to MLS in revenue than coming anywhere close to the PL.

 

[akhil]

The story of Bournemouth outbidding Milan is tired at this point, sure they're reaping the benefits of the Premier League's overall power but that is a feature by design regarding revenue sharing. Milan were a giant, and then screwed themselves by their own mismanagement.

The other big clubs shafted the rest of their leagues with their individual TV deals for decades and now the collective product doesn't compete well.

There's no way this'll work without the PL top 6 in it from the get go.

 

[MartiSaka]

So you think people in Asia would rather watch Southampton vs West Ham compared to Napoli vs Bayern for example?

I would say the former overall. Asia is invested in the PL

 

[MartiSaka]

The story of Bournemouth outbidding Milan is tired at this point, sure they're reaping the benefits of the Premier League's overall power but that is a feature by design regarding revenue sharing. Milan were a giant, and then screwed themselves by their own mismanagement.

The other big clubs shafted the rest of their leagues with their individual TV deals for decades and now the collective product doesn't compete well.

There's no way this'll work without the PL top 6 in it from the get go.

this is a good point, they are largely responsible for their problems. The fact the spainish clubs take such a large proportions of the tv money to maintain their dominance in la liga, has the effect of reducing the appeal of their league globally and hence the amount they can generate overall.

 

[Maybe]

But it's the paradox of this Super League idea. These clubs want it to compete with the PL big boys but they can't get it off the ground without them. As soon as Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool etc backed out the whole project folded like cheap cardboard.

Real, Barca, maybe Bayern, the Italian clubs (No PSG because they're hand in hand with UEFA) and filler clubs, that's not going to have the might to challenge an established draw like the PL when it comes to TV rights deals in the US or China or anywhere else.

In the process you kill every important national league in Europe.

Yeah, I agree with that, maybe 10 years ago when Spanish clubs dominated the continent this idea might have even worked, but it's English clubs now who dictate the rules.

And let's be honest, their national leagues are already dead, Italian league is only competitive because they are all equally ****

 

[SA Gunner]

 

[A_G]

This would be the 80 teams if the ESL happened this year:

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

The whole thing is just jealousy of the PL anyway.

Barca, Real etc. These guys have ruined their own domestic leagues competitiveness with their greed with TV rights deals etc. They'd try doing exactly the same thing in this Super League too.

Say what you want about the PL. It's been run and marketed far better than any other league. It puts out the most watchable football. It's just the best product by most metrics.

The way that TV rights are shared out is much more even than in most of the other major leagues and that's what's made the PL so competitive.

 

[SuperGoon]

The whole thing is just jealousy of the PL anyway.

Barca, Real etc. These guys have ruined their own domestic leagues competitiveness with their greed with TV rights deals etc. They'd try doing exactly the same thing in this Super League too.

Say what you want about the PL. It's been run and marketed far better than any other league. It puts out the most watchable football. It's just the best product by most metrics.

The way that TV rights are shared out is much more even than in most of the other major leagues and that's what's made the PL so competitive.

Don't hate us cos you ain't us

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Where I would have less of an issue is if leagues from a bit lower profile countries tried this sort of amalgamation. I still wouldn't like it but I could see the logic and fairness to it.

The Belgian, Scottish, even Dutch leagues etc have a natural cap on how big they can get. Population size, footballing infrastructure etc. It doesn't matter how well run their clubs or leagues are they have a natural cap and can only grow so large.

Practically I doubt it would appeal to most fans watching Club Brugge vs PSV or whatever but at least I could understand it from a fairness perspective.

The German, Italian and Spanish leagues don't really have that problem. They got a fair crack at the whip to be competitive with the PL and most of their leagues were ahead of the PL at one point or another. It's the avarice of their own big clubs that have screwed their domestic leagues up.

Bayern winning the Bundesliga for about the 38th time in a row while poaching any top domestic player from their rivals. Barca and Real scamming every other domestic club with their own individual TV rights deals to stop competitiveness. Serie A generally being stuck in the 90's.

These guys had their chance and they failed. That's on them.

 

[Rasmi]

You do realize Serie A is absolute garbage in terms of level. This banter Chelsea beat AC Milan in 2nd gear over both legs. Even Napoli lost against this version of Klopps Liverpool.
They make a 3rd of what the PL does and are closer to MLS in revenue than coming anywhere close to the PL.

Napoli put 4 behind Liverpool. We lost to psv and Everton if you want to go that route. I tell you one thing. If we played napoli today we would be underdogs

 

[dashsnow17]

Where I would have less of an issue is if leagues from a bit lower profile countries tried this sort of amalgamation. I still wouldn't like it but I could see the logic and fairness to it.

The Belgian, Scottish, even Dutch leagues etc have a natural cap on how big they can get. Population size, footballing infrastructure etc. It doesn't matter how well run their clubs or leagues are they have a natural cap and can only grow so large.

Practically I doubt it would appeal to most fans watching Club Brugge vs PSV or whatever but at least I could understand it from a fairness perspective.

The German, Italian and Spanish leagues don't really have that problem. They got a fair crack at the whip to be competitive with the PL and most of their leagues were ahead of the PL at one point or another. It's the avarice of their own big clubs that have screwed their domestic leagues up.

Bayern winning the Bundesliga for about the 38th time in a row while poaching any top domestic player from their rivals. Barca and Real scamming every other domestic club with their own individual TV rights deals to stop competitiveness. Serie A generally being stuck in the 90's.

These guys had their chance and they failed. That's on them.

You’re right that individual leagues bear responsibility for the state they’re in and how uncompetitive they are, but what you’re advocating for is essentially a free market approach of survival of the fittest. And that approach inevitably leads to massive inequality which is what we’re seeing, with 50m pound players sitting on the bench of PL clubs when they could be starting for European clubs.

Overall the game suffers as a result. So the people in charge of overseeing the game should intervene, for the best interests of everyone, not just rich PL clubs.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

You’re right that individual leagues bear responsibility for the state they’re in and how uncompetitive they are, but what you’re advocating for is essentially a free market approach of survival of the fittest. And that approach inevitably leads to massive inequality which is what we’re seeing, with 50m pound players sitting on the bench of PL clubs when they could be starting for European clubs.

Overall the game suffers as a result. So the people in charge of overseeing the game should intervene, for the best interests of everyone, not just rich PL clubs.

The way to rectify the dominance of the PL in Europe isn't to destroy every major league in Europe to give a handful of big clubs their spot at the top of the football pyramid back. That's just entitlement on their behalf.

They should look in the mirror and look for internal solutions. It's all their own fault. These clubs have cannibalised their own leagues out of pure greed and that's why they aren't competitive with the PL for eyeballs or TV rights fees. I've no sympathy for them.

Who wants to watch the Spanish league if it's not El Clasico or who wants to watch the German league when everyone knows Bayern are going to win it for the 14th time in a row? It's just uncompetitive and not a good spectacle for fans outside those nations.

These guys have bullied everyone in their own leagues. They're not going to lose that mentality in the Super League. Barca, Bayern, Real etc would be pulling the exact same thing.

A Super League would be way worse than anything now in terms of survival of the fittest. It wouldn't even be survival of the fittest it would be the PL handing a lifeline to a bunch of uncompetitive big names while destroying every other league, club and fanbase in the process. How's that fair or better for European football?

Everyone's worrying about Barca and Real and trying to make them happy. I'm more concerned about what would happen to Hamburg or Cadiz or Norwich City or dozens if not hundreds of other clubs like them that would be destroyed in the long term by this idea.

 

[jones]

@Blood on the Tracks with the fifth consecutive novel repeating the same nothing, "they're too greedy and it's their own fault" brilliant insight about leagues you know nothing of. Nothing to do with 50+1, fan-owned clubs or Abramovich and his kind buying in, nah it's all because them lazy damn foreigners are yet to look into a mirror and find internal solutions.

The PL is dominating everyone else because of Rupert Murdoch, that's pretty much it, the TV deals and invitiation of rich investors to buy clubs and turn them into their toys go back directly to him. **** all to do with clubs in other countries being too greedy, like the PL clubs are run by charities.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

@Blood on the Tracks with the fifth consecutive novel repeating the same nothing, "they're too greedy and it's their own fault" brilliant insight about leagues you know nothing of. Nothing to do with 50+1, fan-owned clubs or Abramovich and his kind buying in, nah it's all because them lazy damn foreigners are yet to look into a mirror and find internal solutions.

The PL is dominating everyone else because of Rupert Murdoch, that's pretty much it, the TV deals and invitiation of rich investors to buy clubs and turn them into their toys go back directly to him. **** all to do with clubs in other countries being too greedy, like the PL clubs are run by charities.

Yeah because the known philanthropist Rupert Murdoch just decided to throw buckets full of cash at the PL for Sky's TV rights deals out of the kindness of his heart

Viewers wanted to watch the PL and he was willing to pay what it took to get it and keep it on his channel.
It's not even just Sky, BT and Amazon are paying through the nose for PL rights too.

I doubt there is a major market in the world where the PL isn't the highest paid for overseas rights.

PL rights fees are distributed much more evenly than they are in Spain for example. It's a total joke how Barca and Real have carved up their rights deals for themselves and to me it is directly linked to the lack of competition in La Liga.

Fair enough it is a bit different in Germany and how clubs are owned specifically. I accept that but something does need to be done about the financial clout Bayern have over every other club there. I like watching the Bundesliga but if the same team is winning it pretty much every season that's not going to appeal too much as a spectacle to football fans outside of Germany. I'm sure plenty in Germany get sick of it too.

 

[jones]

Yeah because the known philanthropist Rupert Murdoch just decided to throw buckets full of cash at the PL for Sky's TV rights deals out of the kindness of his heart

Viewers wanted to watch the PL and he was willing to pay what it took to get it and keep it on his channel.
It's not even just Sky, BT and Amazon are paying through the nose for PL rights too.

I doubt there is a major market in the world where the PL isn't the highest paid for overseas rights.

PL rights fees are distributed much more evenly than they are in Spain for example. It's a total joke how Barca and Real have carved up their rights deals for themselves and to me it is directly linked to the lack of competition in La Liga.

Fair enough it is a bit different in Germany and how clubs are owned specifically. I accept that but something does need to be done about the financial clout Bayern have over every other club there. I like watching the Bundesliga but if the same team is winning it pretty much every season that's not going to appeal too much as a spectacle to football fans outside of Germany. I'm sure plenty in Germany get sick of it too.

Of course he didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart ffs, he did it because he expected gigantic revenues and to become a profitable business eventually. That's why he lapped up billionaires to start buying PL clubs which they duly did.

"viewers wanted to watch the PL" nobody gave a **** about the PL until the late 90s. Italian clubs were levels ahead and even if their own ineptitude and corruption led to their own downfall without the massive influx of money in England the PL would never have caught up with them.

Yes PL rights are distributed more evenly in the UK which is good and something other leagues should do as well. But it's a lot easier to generously share a couple billion evenly than to share a fraction of it. The size of the cake is most relevant not of the portion.

You won't find anyone who hates Bayern more than me anywhere, the reasons for their dominance go back decades and are actually mostly political in nature. But that's really nothing to do with the point that other clubs should just step their game up - Leipzig have shown that if you know what you do and you have money to burn you can become a CL club in no time. I'd rather not see the entire league become a bunch of corporate or billionaire playtoys however.