League Cup | Arsenal vs. Doncaster Rovers | 20 Sep 2017 - 19:45

[BBF]

Just abut sums it up for me. You wouldn't ask a shot putter to do the 100m.

They need to know about the pace of the game mate

 

[tap-in]

I'm all for giving youngsters a couple of games in a slightly different position to give them some minutes and experience playing for the first team but to consistently do it is detrimental to their development. AMN has played a few games for us now and he's pretty much always out of position which makes him look a bit poor, means he's not developing his actual role, messes with his confidence and just doesn't give him any chance to have a spark moment that someone like Fabregas or Wilshere had.

These kids will play a handful of games out of position this season then get dumped because they didn't shine and it's not their fault at all.

Completely agree but AMN had a few awful moments last night, careless mistakes that you shouldn't make regardless of if you are playing out of position or not. I know his pace got us out of trouble a couple of times but generally he was disappointing in pre season and that has continued. I don't see him having much of a career at Arsenal.

 

[Makingtrax]

Got a huge amount of time for this attempt to credit Wenger for converting England international, Sp**s captain and premier league team of the season CB Sol Campbell to ... CB.

Lovely stuff.

Can't give me credit for that. I said 'had' played further up. Implying before he came to Wenger.

Campbell's first game for Sp**s he came on for Nicky Barmby. Then Ardilles played him at left back. Then he played at right back.

 

[tap-in]

Just abut sums it up for me. You wouldn't ask a shot putter to do the 100m.

Geoff Capes was obviously before your time. GB shot putter, also a Policeman. He could run the 100m in pretty quickly for a big guy. Those who remember Superstars will confirm this I loved that show, SuperMac was on it at some point, Kevin Keegan too.

 

[Makingtrax]

Yeah Petit from centre back to DM and Henry as a striker , Cazorla as a DLP .

This.

It's a good job some managers have the guts to play players out of position, otherwise many players may not have blossomed into stars from their early positions.

Bale from full back, Sweinsteiger from winger, Robben from CF, Gerrard from RB. Wasn't Christian Ronaldo a goalie growing up

A lot of players owe their successs to adventurous managers.

 

[Makingtrax]

Geoff Capes was obviously before your time. GB shot putter, also a Policeman. He could run the 100m in pretty quickly for a big guy. Those who remember Superstars will confirm this I loved that show, SuperMac was on it at some point, Kevin Keegan too.

Now you're showing your age

When men were men. Keegan gets up and has half a bitter, no tears in those days

 

[Lookin' for a new Baby]

Geoff Capes was obviously before your time. GB shot putter, also a Policeman. He could run the 100m in pretty quickly for a big guy. Those who remember Superstars will confirm this I loved that show, SuperMac was on it at some point, Kevin Keegan too.

Don't suppose he would have beaten the world number 1 100m runner at the time though.

 

[bingobob]

Alexis as striker . What young players mate ?

"Sánchez is very young," said then-manager Pep Guardiola; "He can play in all three attacking positions, he shows intense defensive skills, he's direct and from what I've been told, he's a very nice kid."

Seems like Wenger wasn't the first one to think or play Alexis as a striker.

In recent times playing players in the wrong position hasn't helped most of our players. I'd speculate the reason as being simply playing one person in a new position works better when the other ten are in their natural position. When you have four or five playing unusual positions it creates serious imbalance as nobody can correct the person to where they should be on the pitch. That's normal circumstances.

We are still in the trial phase of a new formation with let's say a less than disciplined manager. That's 11 unsure guys.

 

[celestis]

"Sánchez is very young," said then-manager Pep Guardiola; "He can play in all three attacking positions, he shows intense defensive skills, he's direct and from what I've been told, he's a very nice kid."

Seems like Wenger wasn't the first one to think or play Alexis as a striker.

In recent times playing players in the wrong position hasn't helped most of our players. I'd speculate the reason as being simply playing one person in a new position works better when the other ten are in their natural position. When you have four or five playing unusual positions it creates serious imbalance as nobody can correct the person to where they should be on the pitch. That's normal circumstances.

We are still in the trial phase of a new formation with let's say a less than disciplined manager. That's 11 unsure guys.

Top managers think alike .

Who has he played in the wrong position though Bob ?

 

[Penn_]

Seen alot lot of reactions saying how awful yesterday was. Really didn't think it was that bad, second half maybe but the result never looked in doubt.

Players out of positions might be annoying but it should allow for better integration into the first team when we get injuries.

Wasn't that impressed with Nelson given the hype. AMN outshone all the young players.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

Seen alot lot of reactions saying how awful yesterday was. Really didn't think it was that bad, second half maybe but the result never looked in doubt.

Players out of positions might be annoying but it should allow for better integration into the first team when we get injuries.

Wasn't that impressed with Nelson given the hype. AMN outshone all the young players.

Nelson was a bit of a let down but I think we would've seen a better showing if he had played Walcott's role yesterday.

 

[bingobob]

Top managers think alike .

Who has he played in the wrong position though Bob ?

In general? Everyone in the 3421 is out of their position. Whatever position they are in they've never played before or if they have ie the midfield two they have never had players positioned as close as the wing backs are currently. The problem then arises with the midfielder being unsure of where he positions himself relative to the wingback and vice versa. It may all seem like small adjustments but they add up.

We've seen Wenger shift Ramsey from right midfield to left midfield offensive and defensive midfield , Ox the same, Wilshere the same and Walcott, left right centre and now am. Alexis is now suddenly a number 10 and occupying the space Özil is use to occupying and now Özil has to consider his movement in tune with Alexis and his erratic movement (see above with centre midfielder and wing back issues). Welbeck is suddenly a number 10 as well.
Chambers has been a Rb, dm and centre back.

It may all be coincidence that all the young inexperienced guys have had their development shunted or as I'll wager it's because the guys are being moved around so often they cannot master one position and when they are close they are moved again. Did you see the Ox for Liverpool recently or England? Dreadful yet after a prolonged run at wb for us he produced some of his best most consistent football.

 

[Tosker]

Geoff Capes was obviously before your time. GB shot putter, also a Policeman. He could run the 100m in pretty quickly for a big guy. Those who remember Superstars will confirm this I loved that show, SuperMac was on it at some point, Kevin Keegan too.

didn't he breed budgies too? just shows big strong men were not afraid to show their softer side back then

 

[celestis]

In general? Everyone in the 3421 is out of their position. Whatever position they are in they've never played before or if they have ie the midfield two they have never had players positioned as close as the wing backs are currently. The problem then arises with the midfielder being unsure of where he positions himself relative to the wingback and vice versa. It may all seem like small adjustments but they add up.

We've seen Wenger shift Ramsey from right midfield to left midfield offensive and defensive midfield , Ox the same, Wilshere the same and Walcott, left right centre and now am. Alexis is now suddenly a number 10 and occupying the space Özil is use to occupying and now Özil has to consider his movement in tune with Alexis and his erratic movement (see above with centre midfielder and wing back issues). Welbeck is suddenly a number 10 as well.
Chambers has been a Rb, dm and centre back.

It may all be coincidence that all the young inexperienced guys have had their development shunted or as I'll wager it's because the guys are being moved around so often they cannot master one position and when they are close they are moved again. Did you see the Ox for Liverpool recently or England? Dreadful yet after a prolonged run at wb for us he produced some of his best most consistent football.

Most of those were a success weren't they though ? Alexis scored and assisted more than he ever had before , Özil scored more than ever .
Ramsey in right midfield made us a pretty formidable outfit with Cazorla and Coquelin in the middle . I don't remember Welbeck as a 10 .

Don't get your point about Ox though , Wenger played him in a different position by moving him there aren't you just validation his decision . Hardly prolonged though though , thought it was 7-8 games tops .

 

[Lookin' for a new Baby]

In general? Everyone in the 3421 is out of their position. Whatever position they are in they've never played before or if they have ie the midfield two they have never had players positioned as close as the wing backs are currently. The problem then arises with the midfielder being unsure of where he positions himself relative to the wingback and vice versa. It may all seem like small adjustments but they add up.

We've seen Wenger shift Ramsey from right midfield to left midfield offensive and defensive midfield , Ox the same, Wilshere the same and Walcott, left right centre and now am. Alexis is now suddenly a number 10 and occupying the space Özil is use to occupying and now Özil has to consider his movement in tune with Alexis and his erratic movement (see above with centre midfielder and wing back issues). Welbeck is suddenly a number 10 as well.
Chambers has been a Rb, dm and centre back.

It may all be coincidence that all the young inexperienced guys have had their development shunted or as I'll wager it's because the guys are being moved around so often they cannot master one position and when they are close they are moved again. Did you see the Ox for Liverpool recently or England? Dreadful yet after a prolonged run at wb for us he produced some of his best most consistent football.

Holding didn't seem to know what he was supposed to be doing in a match recently, he seemed to just run around unsure of what to do, and he was lucky not to get booked covering a mistake he'd made.

 

[Nemetoss]

What should Wenger have done? Bench Walcott, the goalscorer so Nelson can play upfront? We most likely would have drawn then. AMN could have played in the middle, but he'll need an experienced partner to cover for his **** ups. Elneny could have done it, but what about Jack, he needs game time aswell. Then comes the question of who we play in the WB position, Debuchy is injured. We could play Silva and another youngster in the WB position, but coupled with Holding and Chambers our defence would be extremely inexperienced and weak. We have 3 games next week and Arsène can't afford to play the regulars, I think under the circumstances he did a good job with the team selection.

 

[krengon]

It may all be coincidence that all the young inexperienced guys have had their development shunted or as I'll wager it's because the guys are being moved around so often they cannot master one position and when they are close they are moved again. Did you see the Ox for Liverpool recently or England? Dreadful yet after a prolonged run at wb for us he produced some of his best most consistent football.

Think injuries have been a much bigger problem than playing out of position for some of them to have their development shunted.

Take Ox for example, anytime he was close to securing a place in the team he'd get injured for months and start all over again.

 

[krengon]

What should Wenger have done? Bench Walcott, the goalscorer so Nelson can play upfront? We most likely would have drawn then. AMN could have played in the middle, but he'll need an experienced partner to cover for his **** ups. Elneny could have done it, but what about Jack, he needs game time aswell. Then comes the question of who we play in the WB position, Debuchy is injured. We could play Silva and another youngster in the WB position, but coupled with Holding and Chambers our defence would be extremely inexperienced and weak. We have 3 games next week and Arséne can't afford to play the regulars, I think under the circumstances he did a good job with the team selection.

Yeah it was either play them out of position or bench them.

 

[bingobob]

Most of those were a success weren't they though ?

Respectfully I disagree. I said previously we created jack of all trades and masters of nothing. That's okay with one or two players but literally we have a squad full of them. I don't think it's good for the squad or a player going into a game uncertain of who will play where this week.

 

[bingobob]

Think injuries have been a much bigger problem than playing out of position for some of them to have their development shunted.

Take Ox for example, anytime he was close to securing a place in the team he'd get injured for months and start all over again.

That's a massive problem. I'm also of the opinion that after regaining fitness it didn't help him or anyone else to be told you're playing lm this week even though you played centrally before injury. That's my take anyway. Genuinely don't think it helps most players to gain experience outside of your core position.