✍️ OFFICIAL Martin Ødegaard

[Macho]

Saka was not considered poor in December. No one thought that. His poor form came much later in the season.

So what are you saying then? I thought Ødegaard impeded on Saka's game?

In any case I'm not rolling with this one. I've always thought Pepe plays better with people close to him to combine with, so I don't think Ødegaard drifting to the right is quite the disaster you make it out to be.

 

[Macho]

We'll see. Would much rather Ode than Madison but in the end we may end up with neither.

They key thing anyways. Splitting hairs like this may mean nothing in the grand scheme.

 

[RunTheTrap]

Saka was poor with or without Ødegaard for a period so I disagree. It's hard and a bit unfair to blame one players bad form on another.

Why not? I think we can all agree players do better when paired up with some players or systems. I think we can all agree Pepe looks better when he doesn’t have Bellerin behind him for example. So why can’t I say Saka was better when Ødegaard wasn’t on the pitch?

 

[Barry]

Oh dear God no.
[O de. Gaard]

I'm assuming this was intentional. Underrated intro!

 

[RunTheTrap]

So what are you saying then? I thought Ødegaard impeded on Saka's game?

In any case I'm not rolling with this one. I've always thought Pepe plays better with people close to him to combine with, so I don't think Ødegaard drifting to the right is quite the disaster you make it out to be.

Sorry. Let me try again and try to be clear. I’m saying Saka’s g/a from the RW decreased when Ødegaard came into the side. I don’t believe Saka was in poor form from December-February. In that period Saka got goals against Chelsea, Newcastle, Southampton and West Brom. He got assists against Brighton and Southampton. This was less than halfway through the season so fatigue wasn’t there. Plus, more importantly, this was before Ødegaard came along. As soon as Martin came, Saka’s g/a dried up on the RW. Then as the season carried on, Saka’s form deteriorated due to fatigue come April time.

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

Pepe’s best form normally came when Auba wasn’t on the pitch.

Yes because Lacazette links play better. Nothing to do with Ødegaard drifting to the right. If you watch our pre season games, ESR has been doing the same. It’s a tactic to get Pepe in more central positions.

 

[Finesse]

The issue with MO is also clear based on his heatmap. He occupies the ride side on the attacking third. I think that should be where either Pepe / Saka should dominate instead while combining with the RB. MO drifts to the RW naturally and this is not where we need him IMO. He should be where we see Maddison in terms of heatmap , dominating the spot in the central final third , providing shots , through passes and creating space for the RW and LW players. I would love to have a playmaker that covers the central attacking third in terms of heatmap.

 

[Sebastes]

This was only in December btw, less than halfway the season. Fatigue doesn’t really occur until March.

With young players fatigue isn't only about their physical workload but also about mental load. I'd bet that even for Saka, who has to be considered very level headed and mentally strong coming into the fold as our main player (which he was, especially towards the end of the year) takes it toll mentally and drains players.

Not saying there isn't anything in your original point of MØ affecting his general play.

 

[Gunners1616]

If we had the luxury to choose between Ødegaard and Maddison that would be amazing... Both players are young and you can make good arguments for both of them.

It's hard to predict how good Ødegaard can become but same argument can be made about maddison.

Just go for the cheaper option i guess.

 

[bonzka]

For the reported prices I'd take Ødegaard & Aouar over Maddison.

 

[RunTheTrap]

The issue with MO is also clear based on his heatmap. He occupies the ride side on the attacking third. I think that should be where either Pepe / Saka should dominate instead while combining with the RB. MO drifts to the RW naturally and this is not where we need him IMO. He should be where we see Maddison in terms of heatmap , dominating the spot in the central final third , providing shots , through passes and creating space for the RW and LW players. I would love to have a playmaker that covers the central attacking third in terms of heatmap.

This. You get what I’m trying to say. Hence, why I’m in favour of an ESR or Maddison at 10 because they are more versatile in the space they operate in. ESR at 10 knew today create overloads on both sides of the pitch. MO only wants to overload on the right and this can lead that area of the pitch being congested and predictable.

 

[Sebastes]

This. You get what I’m trying to say. Hence, why I’m in favour of an ESR or Maddison at 10 because they are more versatile in the space they operate in. ESR at 10 knew today create overloads on both sides of the pitch. MO only wants to overload on the right and this can lead that area of the pitch being congested and predictable.

I agree with this, but I'd go as far as to say that I wouldn't want Maddison or Ødegaard in as a 10 in a 4231. If we're to play that formation I'd want more of a roaming 10 that shifts positions, links up play and works across the whole attacking line. Especially with the wing players we have in Saka, Pépé, Martinelli and even Auba to some extent. Buendia and ESR are both that kind of player.

I really, really like Ødegaard, but struggle to see how we can play him and get the best out of our current players. Maybe as RCM or tip of the triangle in a 433 (so more withdrawn than playing as 10), with Partey and another athletic midfielder. He then wouldn't necessarily be as high up the pitch but could still control our attacking play while drifting to the right. That in turn would let our wingers play more as inside forwards which I think is more suited to their abilities (bar Saka perhaps who's best position is left winger imo). MØ plays cm for Norway and during his spell at Sociedad he often operated on right side but a bit more withdrawn picking out sublime passes up the field in transition.

No matter what attacking player we bring, I don't see us playing them, Saka and ESR together unless Pépé is out injured. It'd have to be Saka or ESR on the left, new AM and Pépé on the right or Saka left, ESR and Pépé right.

 

[MikeVinna]

For the reported prices I'd take Ødegaard & Aouar over Maddison.

Easily. Would fix two holes in the squad (starting CM and competition at AM). Both could really kick on here when they settle.

 

[Finesse]

This. You get what I’m trying to say. Hence, why I’m in favour of an ESR or Maddison at 10 because they are more versatile in the space they operate in. ESR at 10 knew today create overloads on both sides of the pitch. MO only wants to overload on the right and this can lead that area of the pitch being congested and predictable.

This congestion accounted for the poor patches either Saka or Pepe had on the RW. They did not have the space needed to play their game. At times we were shaped like MO was the RW during games. Making the RW player obsolete and not hugging the line. I am happy ESR has the ability to float around the flanks and central areas. This is why I am for Maddison. I am for principle / position / exact team need over the price. Why bring in a player on loan / go for a cheap option and yet not address what we NEED?

ESR brings fantastic link up play and ball progression in the central areas. What we need to compliment ESR is a player that can come in and provide the added shots , dead ball delivery skills , final pass and an eye for goal.

This may finally bring Auba or Laca back to form. Fingers crossed !

 

[blrgooner]

This is nonsense. Ødegaard drifting to the right should allow Pepe and Saka to move central. Ødegaard and Saka linked up well, Saka was just off form. Pepes goal vs Brighton came as a result of Ødegaard moving to the right and threading a ball through to Pepe.

Agree. I think too much has been made off Ødegaard occupying the right half space. I don`t think good players playing close to each other is an issue and even if there is an issue, I don`t think it is unresolvable.
Also, in terms of stats, if you look at stats of Arsenal as a whole, There is a marked improvement is most of the parameters from the time Ødegaard arrived.

 

[Football Manager]

This congestion accounted for the poor patches either Saka or Pepe had on the RW. They did not have the space needed to play their game. At times we were shaped like MO was the RW during games. Making the RW player obsolete and not hugging the line. I am happy ESR has the ability to float around the flanks and central areas. This is why I am for Maddison. I am for principle / position / exact team need over the price. Why bring in a player on loan / go for a cheap option and yet not address what we NEED?

ESR brings fantastic link up play and ball progression in the central areas. What we need to compliment ESR is a player that can come in and provide the added shots , dead ball delivery skills , final pass and an eye for goal.

This may finally bring Auba or Laca back to form. Fingers crossed !

One player linking up with himself?
We need a team of players who are good at linking up play. Maddison is too direct and will make us even more passive, having less control of the game.

 

[Barry]

Agree. I think too much has been made off Ødegaard occupying the right half space. I don`t think good players playing close to each other is an issue and even if there is an issue, I don`t think it is unresolvable.
Also, in terms of stats, if you look at stats of Arsenal as a whole, There is a marked improvement is most of the parameters from the time Ødegaard arrived.

There was a good Athletic article that someone posted looking at the team improvement following the arrival of ESR. Basically lots of players increased their XG Chain, XA Chain and XBuildup (or whatever it's called). From memory Saka was one of those to benefit as well. It was making the point that it's hard to be sure if this was solely down to ESR or if Ødegaard had an impact. Seemed to indicate that they worked well together though. Maybe someone else can post the article if they know what I'm talking about!

 

[Finesse]

For the reported prices I'd take Ødegaard & Aouar over Maddison.

Financially it makes sense. However in terms of what they can bring into the team individually to compliment with what we have , does it equally make sense?

 

[Barry]

I'm not sure that we should go for both. Aouar would be a little lightweight in midfield I think, unless it's a 3

 

[RunTheTrap]

There was a good Athletic article that someone posted looking at the team improvement following the arrival of ESR. Basically lots of players increased their XG Chain, XA Chain and XBuildup (or whatever it's called). From memory Saka was one of those to benefit as well. It was making the point that it's hard to be sure if this was solely down to ESR or if Ødegaard had an impact. Seemed to indicate that they worked well together though. Maybe someone else can post the article if they know what I'm talking about!

Very nice stuff but does that equate to more goals? I’m seeing loads of X’s and Y’s but will that give us 70 goals? I say 70 because that is the average amount of goals needed to get top 4 in most seasons. We finished the season on 55 goals. Long story short, do you think Ødegaard inclusion to the first team will give us 15+ goals? If you’re answer is no or you’re not sure then we need to move on.