Player Ratings - LC: Arsenal vs Wigan | 11/11/08

[Gooner_Stu]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

Kami is right that not every youngster we have is going to be fantastic for club and country for years to come... some players its obvious they will (Ramsey, Vela, Wilshere), but others may not blossom until they leave here and still others wont blossom at all..

its the natural circle of life in football...

Exactly, some some being trained at Arsenal, this is probably as good as it gets in there careers. But for others, it can lead to be sucessful elsewhere which can be seen you look at previous trainees. Not all of them are massive players in the league, although are top players for their clubs. Many are are playing in the Premiership or top clubs in the Championship. Maybe not all who played last night will be Excellent Arsenal players, but can and should be good/decent premiership players.

 

[j'nuh]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

i just dont get why people get mad everytime i suggest that every arsenal player may not necessarily be the best in the world at his position. yes, fabregas, ramsey, wilshere, vela is right up there with messi, bojan, pique, busquet. yes, denilson is a promising player but he's flawed at the moment. so what?

to suggest that fabianski and djourou are potential world class shows a bit of supporter bias, i think. i suppose jonny evans is potential world class as well? if so, what about x, y and z at club a, b and c? all of a sudden, we've got a huge bunch of potential world class players.

No-ones gone mad, they just calmly and completely refuted everything you said.

 

[kamikaze80]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

hehe ok, j'nuh. djourou and fabianski are world class and fabregas, ramsey and vela are arsenal academy products, just like messi, bojan and err.. fabregas are barca academy products. you win. there's no room for moderate views here anymore: either our carling cup squad is the best in the world or its pointless, wenger is jesus in disguise or a genius gone mad, denilson is amazing or he's ****e, etc.

:roll:

 

[j'nuh]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

hehe ok, j'nuh. djourou and fabianski are world class and fabregas, ramsey and vela are arsenal academy products, just like messi, bojan and err.. fabregas are barca academy products. you win. there's no room for moderate views here anymore: either our carling cup squad is the best in the world or its pointless, wenger is jesus in disguise or a genius gone mad, denilson is amazing or he's s***e, etc.

:roll:

I was more talking about the fact that you claimed Barca beat someone 6-0 with a very young side that turned out to not really be young at all, and pointed to United having similar quality youth to us. I didnt see where anyone claimed Djourou and Fabianski were world class.

And i dont know about Wenger being Jesus, but to claim our Carling Cup squad is the best in the world in my view is hardly an extreme point of view. In terms of what it actually is, it does seem to be the best group of young players in England. Its difficult to compare other teams outside of England, but could you point me in the direction of a team that has a better collection of young players?

 

[number_0]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

I think we(arsenal) have a dissadavatage when picking up youth kids, we ristricted to a certain area around the stadiam, while barca and real get to arrange a youth tournoment to hand pick the best talents in the country, as a result we turn for the foreign talents and we develope them from scratch like we would develope our kids, we are mearily developers not producers which imo is harder, as we help bring many talents into the next level.

 

[dutchMasta]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

We should really be dominating the reserve league then shouldn't we?

 

[True Gooner]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

Fair question, but I dont think the likes of Ramsey, Fabianksi, Djourou, Song and Vela play in the reserve.

Also, I'm not too sure but I was under the impression that other reserve teams feature one or two experienced players - either because their working their way back to fitness or because they've fallen out with the powers that be.

Finally, we promote our U-18s to Reserve league football fairly quickly. I dont think the club cares about the Reserve league title.

 

[irishgunnerz]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

Fabianski 6.5 - When this guy learns when to come out and when not to he will be amazing. The save at the end was as good as I have ever seen at any level by any keeper. Two or three wild charges from his line would have been costly against most teams but none can doubt his innate ability


Hoyte 6.5 - Did nothing wrong but didn't stand out for me, for better or for worse,

Djourou 7 - His greater experience showed, overall kept the threat from Zaki etc at a minimum - which many teams have yet to do

Song 7 - As above.

Gibbs 6.5 - Poor defensively, as mentioned by others very good going forward. Its easy to see why he plays as a winger. Has pace to burn and gets forward well

Merida 7 - Again a very talented player but needs to help out his defence a bit more

Randall 6 - Did the ugly things well which people seem to have missed but did the fancy stuff poorly and too often. Doesnt mind getting stuck in but needs cut back on the fancy flicks to nobody

Ramsey 8 - Calm ,assured, peformace summed up his delaying a pass to Gibbs until the very last moment before releasing a perfect pass

Wilshere 8.5 - Is this guy really 16? His control, vision, and ability to pick out a pass at such a young age is mind boggling. Sums up the quintessential Arsenal player

Simpson 7.5 - Good poacher, almost Ian Wright like. Agree though that unfortunately I can't see him making it here given the young talent ahead of him

Vela 8.0 - can't believe the comments and ratings below an 8. One world class finish demonstrating strength, vision and technique, one unselfish and extremely well played assist demonstrating pace over short distance, power that belies his build, and a team ethic that some *cough* Ade *cough* could learn from, and people still are unhappy... If thats a 6 in some people's minds what exactly is an 8 for a striker? A bicycle from a corner they took themselves? a diving header from the centre circle?

 

[dutchMasta]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

Anyway, it's a bit confusing, who exactly are we talking about when it comes to Arsenal youths? If we're including Vela, Djourou, Song, Fabianski and Ramsey, 1st squad team members, then Fabregas, Nasri, Walcott, Denilson, Bendtner should be included, in which case, I'd agree that we likely have the best youths in the world.

We do it too, Silvestre for example played in the reserves didn't he?

Do other teams promote U-18s? We promote Reserve team players to the CC team, and Wenger has indicated that we don't care about it as much, but no excuse not to do well in it.
He uses it to develop younger players, heck, it seems he uses every league/cup competition to do that.

I think we do have the best youths (excluding any 1st team squad member) in England for sure, but to say the best in the world is an uninformed statement with a hint of bias imo. Anyway, the time where we finally develop said youths into Arsenal 1st team starters, regularly, like Barca do (Busquets, Messi, Xavi, Valdez, Puyol, Iniesta, Bojan, all from their youth team), then I'll start to think we may have the best youth set up in the world. But at the moment, I only recall A.Cole being any good (good enough for our 1st team) from our youth, and look what happened to him. Don't really count people like Walcott or Fabregas, who weren't really developed through the ranks by us.

 

[dbig]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

We should really be dominating the reserve league then shouldn't we?

No, we shouldn't. Do you know who usually plays in our reserve games? Some of them can't even make the Carling Cup squad. Many of them still qualify for U18s, U17s and maybe U16s.

It's clear that the priority of the club isn't winning the reserve league. We've played players out of position, probably to give them a feel of the game, and have given many younger players a chance to play to gain more experience. The reserve league isn't just for our first team reserves, it's for the even younger "kids" as well. I hate it when people say that we should be walking the reserve league, which is an especially usual comment by supporters of other clubs whenever they want to deride our youths.

The list of players and the opponents. The numbers of players that started in the games and are in (CC first 11/ CC squad). Results in square brackets, Arsenal first, always.


Chelsea (6/3) [2-3]: Szczesny, Ogogo, Bartley, G.Hoyte, Gibbs, Wilshere, Coquelin, Randall, Merida, Simpson, Fonte
Subs - Shea, Thomas, Rodgers, Murphy, Dunne.

Portsmouth (5/3) [1-0]: Mannone, Ogogo, Bartley, G.Hoyte, Gibbs, Dunne, Randall, Merida, Lansbury, Simpson, Fonte
Subs - Szczesny - Steer - Rodgers - Henderson - Murphy

Villa (4/4) [1-4]: Mannone, G.Hoyte, Bartley, Thomas, Cruise, Lansbury, Frimpong, Randall, Wilshere, Fonte, Simpson
Subs: Szczesny, Ayling, Freeman, Murphy

Stoke (4/3) [3-2]: Szczesny, Ayling, Bartley, Silvestre, Gibbs, Randall, Coquelin, Wilshere, Bischoff, Simpson, Fonte
Subs - Shea - Steer - Eastmond - Frimpong - Sunu

Fulham (3/6) [2-0]: Mannone, G.Hoyte, Rodgers, Ayling, Ogogo, Bischoff, Coquelin, Lansbury, Mérida, Simpson, Fonte
Subs -Szczesny - Steer - Thomas - Frimpong - Sunu

West Ham (4/4) [0-1]: Mannone, Ogogo, Rodgers, Hoyte, Steer, Randall, Coquelin, Merida, Bischoff, Murphy, Simpson
Subs - Shea - Thomas - Ayling - Fonte - Sunu

 

[dutchMasta]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

It's clear that the priority of the club isn't winning the reserve league. We've played players out of position, probably to give them a feel of the game, and have given many younger players a chance to play to gain more experience.

Sounds like you're talking about our 1st team and CC cup team. And seriously, no club priorities winning the reserve league does it??

The reserve league isn't just for our first team reserves, it's for the even younger "kids" as well. I hate it when people say that we should be walking the reserve league, which is an especially usual comment by supporters of other clubs whenever they want to deride our youths.

Most if not all other teams play kids in their reserve teams, don't they?

BTW, I know the CC squad isn't the same as our Reserves team, but nor is the competition is it? That's why I hold to my statement.

Anyway, this is getting way off topic, I'll try not to post any more on this if I can help it.

 

[dbig]

Re: Arsenal vs Wigan Player Ratings

The reserve league isn't just for our first team reserves, it's for the even younger "kids" as well. I hate it when people say that we should be walking the reserve league, which is an especially usual comment by supporters of other clubs whenever they want to deride our youths.

Most if not all other teams play kids in their reserve teams, don't they?

BTW, I know the CC squad isn't the same as our Reserves team, but nor is the competition is it? That's why I hold to my statement.

Anyway, this is getting way off topic, I'll try not to post any more on this if I can help it.

Generally, the teams that the reserves have come up against are older and more experienced. Of course they aren't mostly first-teamers like Wigan but at a young age, every year of experience counts a lot. Not everyone is like Jack Wilshere.

Of course the competition isn't the same as the CC but, again, our squad isn't even 1/2 as experienced as the CC squad.

Finally, I'm not saying that our youngsters are the best or anything, I'm just saying that there's no reason to knock them by saying that if they were so good, they should walk the reserve league.

No more posts on this topic here because, as you've said, it's getting off-topic.