James Maddison

[Let's play Aubamawang]

Can we please get this back on track?

What other words do you lot reckon Madison doesn't know?

Hyperbole is a good shout.

Onomatopoeia maybe?

 

[Barry]

Antidisestablishmentarianism

 

[Barry]

Try and say that whilst trying to dribble past three Sp**s players and bang it into the top corner

 

[MauveGunner]

Antidisestablishmentarianism

Lets hop he doens't have hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia

 

[Jellon Lamb]

One thing I haven’t really seen discussed, much…

It seems like Maddison and White are the type of players Arteta/Edu pretty much HAVE to go for. I think it’s pretty clear that we need to have a rather strong start to next season or things could get very ugly, very quickly at The Emirates. Obviously, Ødegaard has already had time to acclimate to Arsenal and the PL but signing players like Olise/Aouar/counting on Saliba? That will probably call for a “bedding in” period and I’m not sure Arteta can afford that.

Getting players with experience in the PL just makes more sense for a manager who can’t afford a bad start to next season. Like it or not, Arteta is the manager at Arsenal and if he wants to continue to hold that job, he’s got to get positive results before January.

Like some of you, I’ve always wished that Arsenal would adopt a similar approach to Dortmund where we sign players like Olise before they truly blow up and command a 50M fee. I still think it’s possible to rebuild the squad that way but unfortunately, it’s not an option for the two guys currently making those decisions. They simply don’t have the time to sacrifice points for the sake of development. For them, bringing in players like Maddison and White just makes more sense if they want to keep their jobs.

 

[Barry]

Lets hop he doens't have hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia

This is blowing my mind

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

Onomatopoeia maybe?

marmalade

 

[Let's play Aubamawang]

marmalade

Masquerade

 

[SingmeasongSong]

Always used to read that word as "Hyper Bowl" like some kind of awesome American sports event

To be fair, the Super Bowl is certainly a hyperbole

 

[Rasmi]

One thing I haven’t really seen discussed, much…

It seems like Maddison and White are the type of players Arteta/Edu pretty much HAVE to go for. I think it’s pretty clear that we need to have a rather strong start to next season or things could get very ugly, very quickly at The Emirates. Obviously, Ødegaard has already had time to acclimate to Arsenal and the PL but signing players like Olise/Aouar/counting on Saliba? That will probably call for a “bedding in” period and I’m not sure Arteta can afford that.

Getting players with experience in the PL just makes more sense for a manager who can’t afford a bad start to next season. Like it or not, Arteta is the manager at Arsenal and if he wants to continue to hold that job, he’s got to get positive results before January.

Like some of you, I’ve always wished that Arsenal would adopt a similar approach to Dortmund where we sign players like Olise before they truly blow up and command a 50M fee. I still think it’s possible to rebuild the squad that way but unfortunately, it’s not an option for the two guys currently making those decisions. They simply don’t have the time to sacrifice points for the sake of development. For them, bringing in players like Maddison and White just makes more sense if they want to keep their jobs.

Well we havent signed any of them yet.......right now we dont know whats true or whats not. There is too many names out there. But 50 million for ben white is truly stupid deal if it does happen

 

[bingobob]

Except that valuing of footballers isn't an exact science. Maddison could come here and stink the place up, and if you need some guarantee of success then why not go for Olise + Toney, after all Maddison himself was proven only in the championship before he came to Leicester.

Not that I believe we can even get him for 60m, Leicester will probably ask for 70m+ for him and we'll be stuck wasting most of the transfer window in a futile pursuit of an unattainable target.

I really like Toney and think we should sign him. Point I was making nothing is guaranteed. Those shirts may not rip but when history says they do then it's hard not to look at history. Maddison for 70m is good value in the market. Would you pay that if he was Spanish playing in Spain no, but that's because there is more risk involved. You pay a premium for A/ proven quality B/ English and home grown. That's the reality. It shouldn't put us off. That it does in my mind aligns with why we are where we are. We prefer risky gambles.

 

[MutableEarth]

Like some of you, I’ve always wished that Arsenal would adopt a similar approach to Dortmund where we sign players like Olise before they truly blow up and command a 50M fee. I still think it’s possible to rebuild the squad that way but unfortunately, it’s not an option for the two guys currently making those decisions. They simply don’t have the time to sacrifice points for the sake of development. For them, bringing in players like Maddison and White just makes more sense if they want to keep their jobs.

I think the Olise signing is offset by the fact that we have quite a few upcoming young players in those positions already with a huge upside, particularly ESR who occupies the same areas already. So I can kinda see why we wouldn't always go for that signing. Perhaps a little older.

 

[MutableEarth]

Maddison is top class and PL proven. I'm convinced this forum would find ways to shoot down prime Messi.

I rate Maddison, I'd just be concerned about the numbers as we would be if we spent that same money on Ødegaard. Of the two, I'd much prefer Maddison if I'm honest, as talented as Ødegaard is IMO. It's a gamble but a far safer one IMO.

 

[GunnerShy]

I really like Toney and think we should sign him. Point I was making nothing is guaranteed. Those shirts may not rip but when history says they do then it's hard not to look at history. Maddison for 70m is good value in the market. Would you pay that if he was Spanish playing in Spain no, but that's because there is more risk involved. You pay a premium for A/ proven quality B/ English and home grown. That's the reality. It shouldn't put us off. That it does in my mind aligns with why we are where we are. We prefer risky gambles.

Why pay a premium for B? Nobody has an issue with A. And it's not even a premium. It's just reflective of value with lower risk.

A is tied to their quality. B - being English is not a quality. Yes we need to balance the squad with home grown players. Saliba will be homegrown next season, EMI was home grown. The academy players are homegrown. Do it that way

When you pay, pay only for quality. The best example is Maguire v VVD one at £80m one at £70m

Since VVD joined. Liverpool won the league, were the highest ever points total for 2nd and won a champions league.

United have won nothing. United can afford to make these mistakes, we'd be in an even worse place doing it.

 

[bingobob]

Why pay a premium for B? Nobody has an issue with A. And it's not even a premium. It's just reflective of value with lower risk.

A is tied to their quality. B - being English is not a quality. Yes we need to balance the squad with home grown players. Saliba will be homegrown next season, EMI was home grown. The academy players are homegrown. Do it that way

When you pay, pay only for quality. The best example is Maguire v VVD one at £80m one at £70m

Since VVD joined. Liverpool won the league, were the highest ever points total for 2nd and won a champions league.

United have won nothing. United can afford to make these mistakes, we'd be in an even worse place doing it.

What a terrible terrible comparison. I'm embarrassed for you. Before Maguire signed United finished 6th and conceded 54 goals. The season he signed they conceded 36 goals and finished 3rd. CL qualification recouped their transfer fee. They followed that up last season by finishing 2nd and arguably lost the EL final because Maguire was injured. Their run of games when he was out was brutal. So since he signed they reached the CL twice which is regarded as the more important thing.

B is important commercially and also to fulfill the home grown quota. If you have a home grown players that's a starter it makes it easier to look at value elsewhere. The issue with developing them yourself is just that developing them. Yes one or two around the team can be nice but whilst developing they are still learning. And learning takes time (see British core) . When you want to bridge that gap (which we need to do) you need an immediate impact, like Maguire at United who shore up the defence and got them CL football straight away. And as then mentioned it means you can look at a value signing from abroad, like United did with Bruno.

Next.

 

[truth_hurts]

Not really true.

Compare Buendía and Maddison's stats on FBref between Buendía's 19-20 season and Maddison's 19-20 and 20-21 seasons. Buendía's 19-20 looks better than Maddison's 20-21 despite playing in a side that finished 20th, and their 19-20 seasons are quite similar with Buendía again edging him in a number of categories.

Frankly, it's a bit hard to understand not signing Buendía if the plan was to go for Maddison. Makes it seem like the plan was really to go for Ødegaard (which is fine, if we had done our due diligence and were sure we could sign him), but that we then realised we couldn't and pivoted to Maddison. Which just smells a bit of incompetence.

Trying to keep my mind open about this signing, Maddison is a good player but for his price tag we really need a fine player--I hope he is that, but I am not at all convinced he is better than Buendía, or Brandt and Aouar for that matter.

The only reasonable hypothesis I can think of (other than the extremely unappetising one of us just not moving fast enough for Buendía and getting beat out by Villa for that reason only) is that our scouting of Buendía drew questions about his ability to play as a central #10, rather than an interior right (or left) winger as he has played. But I kinda doubt that, his skills seem translatable to the #10 to the highest degree.

Hoping I am wrong here and underrating Maddison, but from stats and the eye test it is hard to find anything that distinguishes him from Buendía, Brandt, or Aouar, and indeed I can find a good number of things in both the stat and eye test that seem favourable in those three.

Stats are a Zzzzzz for me. You're right, there probably isn't much to say as an absolute that Maddison is better than Buendia or Aoaur, but he does have 3 strong Premier League campaigns under his belt for a top 6 team.

He comes with more guarantees than both.

 

[GunnerShy]

What a terrible terrible comparison. I'm embarrassed for you. Before Maguire signed United finished 6th and conceded 54 goals. The season he signed they conceded 36 goals and finished 3rd. CL qualification recouped their transfer fee. They followed that up last season by finishing 2nd and arguably lost the EL final because Maguire was injured. Their run of games when he was out was brutal. So since he signed they reached the CL twice which is regarded as the more important thing.

B is important commercially and also to fulfill the home grown quota. If you have a home grown players that's a starter it makes it easier to look at value elsewhere. The issue with developing them yourself is just that developing them. Yes one or two around the team can be nice but whilst developing they are still learning. And learning takes time (see British core) . When you want to bridge that gap (which we need to do) you need an immediate impact, like Maguire at United who shore up the defence and got them CL football straight away. And as then mentioned it means you can look at a value signing from abroad, like United did with Bruno.

Next.

That's a really good point actually. The Bruno Maguire comparison is far more apt.

With Maguire and without Bruno United were taking 1.41 points per game, on track for 53ish points and a lower finish than the season before.

Once Bruno joined it was 2.33 points per game which saw them finish top 4.

He has had a transformational impact and in many people's opinion saved OGS' job.

One was PL proven, Home grown and cost £80m. Goals conceded dropped but do did points won per game.

The other was from the Portuguese league and cost €55m. Transformed their team literally over night.

If United fans had to choose between them, don't think many would pick Maguire.

 

[bingobob]

That's a really good point actually. The Bruno Maguire comparison is far more apt.

With Maguire and without Bruno United were taking 1.41 points per game, on track for 53ish points and a lower finish than the season before.

Once Bruno joined it was 2.33 points per game which saw them finish top 4.

He has had a transformational impact and in many people's opinion saved OGS' job.

One was PL proven, Home grown and cost £80m. Goals conceded dropped but do did points won per game.

The other was from the Portuguese league and cost €55m. Transformed their team literally over night.

If United fans had to choose between them, don't think many would pick Maguire.

I'm not sure if you're trying to prove or disprove my point here?

Ps I really hope you're trying to disprove it (rubs hands)

 

[GunnerShy]

I'm not sure if you're trying to prove or disprove my point here?

Ps I really hope you're trying to disprove it (rubs hands)

I noticed you'd proved my point with the Maguire Bruno comparison

 

[LG10]

Every Leicester fan issaying he’s inconsistent, injury prone, and dispensable to them.