Lisandro Martinez

[RunTheTrap]

On the flip side tho if he does get in ahead of Tierney, then we've got two inverted full-backs that won't offer a great deal of support to their winger and won't overlap and cause overloads. This is will severely limit our attacking capabilities and make us a bit predictable.

Which is why this signing only really works if we get that other touchline winger to play on the left.

 

[RunTheTrap]

My problem with this signing is that it is dependent on the LW being signed too. By itself Martinez at LB doesn’t do much for us. Secondly, signing players in highly specialised roles doesn’t work well if the manager is sacked. Most managers don’t use two inverted fullbacks. Say the next manager we sign isn’t a JDP coach, do we move Martinez into DM or CB? Then you bring yourself another issue because a short CB is a no-no and who knows how good he is in midfield for a PL team.

 

[The_Playmaker]

Which is why this signing only really works if we get that other touchline winger to play on the left.

Maybe just me, but I thought Martinelli really developed into his role of hugging the touchline as the season went on.

 

[bingobob]

Only because you keep repeating the same points without addressing the counter arguments. Going on and on about a rigid definition of LB and how this player didn't play there, even though the position is completely different in the two systems in question.

A rigid definition of being a left back? Wtf is a rigid definition? The expectation that the guy we are maybe spending 40m has played there more than a dozen times? Like left back is very fluid, there are different ways of playing it. Maybe i could judge what you say this guy can do if you know he actually played there and done that stuff. But atm he doesn't.

See Ben White. Stat wise and profile wise he is the right sided version of Martinez. Primarily a centre back who has also played right back and centre midfield. Nobody is clamouring for him to be made a right back because well he looked like a fish out of water.

 

[The_Playmaker]

My problem with this signing is that it is dependent on the LW being signed too. By itself Martinez at LB doesn’t do much for us. Secondly, signing players in highly specialised roles doesn’t work well if the manager is sacked. Most managers don’t use two inverted fullbacks. Say the next manager we sign isn’t a JDP coach, do we move Martinez into DM or CB? Then you bring yourself another issue because a short CB is a no-no and who knows how good he is in midfield for a PL team.

The more important signing would be the left 8. That's the game changer. Martinelli, Saka and ESR can all hug the touchline. The problem is that when they draw two players to them and pop it inside, it currently goes to Xhaka. Pop it inside to someone who can dribble, shoot and use both feet and the opposition has a serious problem, especially with Jesus floating around.

 

[Goonger]

The more important signing would be the left 8. That's the game changer. Martinelli, Saka and ESR can all hug the touchline. The problem is that when they draw two players to them and pop it inside, it currently goes to Xhaka. Pop it inside to someone who can dribble, shoot and use both feet and the opposition has a serious problem, especially with Jesus floating around.

You actually seen that in the video you posted. Martinelli done well, but too often he was on his own, 2 players on him, with no-one to combine with.

 

[Bloodbather]

A rigid definition of being a left back? Wtf is a rigid definition? The expectation that the guy we are maybe spending 40m has played there more than a dozen times? Like left back is very fluid, there are different ways of playing it. Maybe i could judge what you say this guy can do if you know he actually played there and done that stuff. But atm he doesn't.

Rigid definition, because you are trying to judge a player's ability to play inverted full-back on his past history of having (not) played regular full-back. An inverted LB is essentially a combination of a defensive midfielder and a defensive full-back, a position that is regularly covered by quick center-backs. We already have one such example on the team in Tomiyasu.

Lisandro is a left-footed LCB/DM who is very good with the ball at his feet, excels at pushing the play with his passing, is quick to recover defensively, and good in the tackle. That fits the idea of an inverted LB to a T, and that's why people are enthusiastic about the idea of using him in that role. We're judging him based on his actual skillset, not his positional map in a different system.

See Ben White. Stat wise and profile wise he is the right sided version of Martinez. Primarily a centre back who has also played right back and centre midfield. Nobody is clamouring for him to be made a right back because well he looked like a fish out of water.

Not true whatsoever. Ben White wishes he was as good technically as Martínez is.

 

[Sammy1887]

100 pages for a 5 ft 9 in CB from Eredivisie who wouldn't start for us or pushes the needle.

 

[Riou]

Prime Gael Clichy, would be absolutely perfect for that attacking left back role we currently have.

Martinez would be a decent option too, I guess.

 

[MrAjax]

That’s not completely true. A lot fans overate players outside the PL.

That's also true. The thing is, more than 99% of footbal fans only have knowledge about their own team and don't know **** about other teams, even if they play in their own league, let alone in a foreign league. So it's basically all guess work on forums like this... F.i., I remember how stunned I was when Vincent Janssen was sold to Sp**s, while everyone over here knew he was no good. So you can say even entire football clubs don't always do their homework properly.

 

[Gooner416]

 

[The_Playmaker]

You actually seen that in the video you posted. Martinelli done well, but too often he was on his own, 2 players on him, with no-one to combine with.

Thats the point. He had Xhaka inside him and Lacazette ahead of him. He was able to drag 2 players to him consistently throughout the match. First half VVD had to come across, second half had Trent and Fabinho.

Now if Trent is coming across and Fabinho is coming across where is the space?

Say you had Tielemans and Jesus instead of Laca and Xhaka. That space gets exploited. Martinellis hard work actually has a purpose.

 

[field442]

No mention of Arsenal in his article. Bit weird for the club to be leaking to Ornstein that they’re still in the race for him when from the Ajax side it sounds like he’s only going to Utd. Maybe they’re trying to sign someone else, or maybe they’re running up a dead end like they did with Raphinha.

 

[Goonger]

Thats the point. He had Xhaka inside him and Lacazette ahead of him. He was able to drag 2 players to him consistently throughout the match. First half VVD had to come across, second half had Trent and Fabinho.

Now if Trent is coming across and Fabinho is coming across where is the space?

Say you had Tielemans and Jesus instead of Laca and Xhaka. That space gets exploited. Martinellis hard work actually has a purpose.

Agreed. It's that type of half space you could see someone like Vieira thrive in as well, if he manages to acclimatise to the league ok, although I also appreciate its a big gamble if he's the only signing for that position this summer.

 

[Legend14]

Rigid definition, because you are trying to judge a player's ability to play inverted full-back on his past history of having (not) played regular full-back. An inverted LB is essentially a combination of a defensive midfielder and a defensive full-back, a position that is regularly covered by quick center-backs. We already have one such example on the team in Tomiyasu.

Lisandro is a left-footed LCB/DM who is very good with the ball at his feet, excels at pushing the play with his passing, is quick to recover defensively, and good in the tackle. That fits the idea of an inverted LB to a T, and that's why people are enthusiastic about the idea of using him in that role. We're judging him based on his actual skillset, not his positional map in a different system.


Not true whatsoever. Ben White wishes he was as good technically as Martínez is.

This is a fine “what if” wish scenarios for fans. We’ll just play him out of the position that he plays successfully for club and country because we are Arsenal?

Does the player want to play out of position? What would be his incentive to join a tougher league and play at an uncomfortable position?

In ManUTD going to play him out of position? Not likely, since the manager already has seen his success at CB. If I was the player, I would have ManUtd as my first choice because it will be more comfortable and familiar.

Has Arteta implied that the player would be played out of position?

 

[Kobi]

So in summary Ajax have an Argentinian international left back with 40 caps available for £4m and an Argentinian international centre back with 7 caps that they are reluctant to sell for less than £50m and we want to buy the centre back and play him at left back?
Inverted or not inverted this still seems bizarre to me, especially when we are the inevitable Partey injury away from another season of an Elneny, Xhaka midfield, as well as a Jesus injury from Nketiah having to start every game again.
These, I would argue, are far more important issues than inverted left backs.
Those people arguing that Mikel needs the exact profile for every position for ‘his system’ to work are the same people who told us last season that spending £80m on White and Ramsdale to replace Leno and Holding would transform the way we played out and make us completely press resistant. And guess what? We’re still terrible.
Only difference is when we lose the ball we now have a worse defender and a worse goalkeeper.
Also I thought one of the main reasons Pep uses these inverted fullbacks is to stop counter attacks and likes them to be fast, which is why he likes Walker there. Martinez isn’t fast.
Arteta’s big selling point was improving players, specifically Sterling and Sane, well how about using some of our players instead of just giving them all away?
Maitland-Niles has a similar profile to Cancelo, fast, strong, athletic, comfortable in midfield, why not try converting him like City did with Zinchenko (also a CM)?
The amount of money these pair of clowns are throwing around ’upgrading’ areas of the squad which least need upgrading is negligent at best, borderline criminal.

 

[MikelHadADream]

Maybe just me, but I thought Martinelli really developed into his role of hugging the touchline as the season went on.

Agree, always thought we looked a better team with him in it as well. He has to increase his output though.

 

[HollandGooner]

I have no ****ing clue why we are not trying for Tagliafico anyway. It seems we are getting out done again on the transfer market which is a very very bad sign.

 

[drippin]

I have no ****ing clue why we are not trying for Tagliafico anyway. It seems we are getting out done again on the transfer market which is a very very bad sign.

They want a left-footed LCB. They also seem to want a starting inverted LB. Martinez fits both in one player. Taglifiaco is soon 30 and likely wants to know he starts, but is he that much better than Tierney in inverted LB role?

Martinez very likely is, and has higher ceiling, and is younger than Taglifiaco. The club targets players under 27 years old it seems, so they have resale value or can improve together with the team for years. Not having to buy a new player for the back line in 2-3 years, the new player needing to learn the tactics.

 

[jones]

They want a left-footed LCB. They also seem to want a starting inverted LB. Martinez fits both in one player. Taglifiaco is soon 30 and likely wants to know he starts, but is he that much better than Tierney in inverted LB role?

Martinez very likely is, and has higher ceiling, and is younger than Taglifiaco. The club targets players under 27 years old it seems, so they have resale value or can improve together with the team for years. Not having to buy a new player for the back line in 2-3 years, the new player needing to learn the tactics.

Can you give me an example of an inverted fullback?