Moises Caicedo

[NieThePiet]

It's sad that we are finally in such a good position, but sadly have such an incompetent sporting director.

We knew we need a midfielder all winter and not only because of the injury from Elneny. They would have sold Caicedo for a fair price if they had enough time to sign a replacemet. But three days before the window closes? No way someone can be surprised.

 

[field442]

Arsenal aren't going to publicly admit they knew 60m would be too low tho. Otherwise you lose negotiating power. In almost every deal the selling and buying club compromise to some degree. If we go straight in with 75 million Brighton could easily chance their arm at getting more. It's been speculated they might value at that but there's no concrete evidence. The latest seems to be 90m. FTR I think he'll eventually go for much less than that whether it's this window (unlikely) or the summer I'm thinking about 70m.

We are buyers in a seller's market. It's unrealistic to go into this part of the window thinking we are going to come out of any deal without overpaying.

 

[Rasmi]

We can also point to the fact that Chelsea only bid 55m. We can say there's another club that don't value him anywhere near what Brighton do. I believe eventually Brighton will lower their demands because the player has shown he'll push a move.

Let’s just be patient until the 31st. I bet they will be begging for that 60 million. Edu is cooking again

 

[TH14shahriar]

We are buyers in a seller's market. It's unrealistic to go into this part of the window thinking we are going to come out of any deal without overpaying.

Don't know what this club is thinking, I feel sick, my only hope is that Elneny is back sooner than expected. He's not good enough either but he's 100x better than Sambi

 

[Red London]

It's sad that we are finally in such a good position, but sadly have such an incompetent sporting director.

We knew we need a midfielder all winter and not only because of the injury from Elneny. They would have sold Caicedo for a fair price if they had enough time to sign a replacemet. But three days before the window closes? No way someone can be surprised.

Yes I really dont understand the timing of this. If you want to pull something like this off you need to be well prepared and leave negotiation time and time for Brighton to get an adequate replacement.

I think its quite clear now that we have been a bit disorganised at times in the transfer window despite meaning the best and usually going for the right players.

I think Arteta is the one who will be mostly identifying the players or pointing out the need in the squad, whereas Edu is for logistics, planning and negotiating in the transfer window.

I would say we have done a 9/10 job in talent ID over the last couple years but 5-6/10 when it comes to the logistics, planning and negotiating. Especially the former 2.

 

[Tomb Bombadil]

Activating release clause means paying it in one go. That is very bad for FFP. Chelsea does 7-8 deals to amortize the cost for FFP, and even they won't pay Enzo's release clause.

Why is it bad for FFP? I thought you could amortize the amount over the term of the contract with FFP. So £60m and he would sign a 6 year contract you have £10m in the book each year. Or what has it to do with the relsease clause. I think that's more of a problem if you have the liquidity, no?

 

[drippin]

Arsenal need to wise up in the transfer market. You pay what the selling club wants, not what you think is fair. The selling club doesn't care for what you think is fair, they want they think the player is worth. Don't go for a player who has an asking price thought to be £75m if you think £60m is "fair".

It's the first bid. It always takes 2-3 bids. So 60 million pounds is the starting price. It enables to go for 75-80 million as a last bid. Look at how Mudryk bids rose. A__G has said it countless times, that you don't offer what they demand in the first offer.

 

[Red London]

Why is it bad for FFP? I thought you could amortize the amount over the term of the contract with FFP. So £60m and he would sign a 6 year contract you have £10m in the book each year. Or what has it to do with the relsease clause. I think that's more of a problem if you have the liquidity, no?

If you activate a release clause you are paying it all in one go and can't amortise it over the length of the contract. Rather than lets say 100m over 5 years it would be 100m over 1 year.

 

[Dutch D]

Why is it bad for FFP? I thought you could amortize the amount over the term of the contract with FFP. So £60m and he would sign a 6 year contract you have £10m in the book each year. Or what has it to do with the relsease clause. I think that's more of a problem if you have the liquidity, no?

Indeed

If you activate a release clause you are paying it all in one go and can't amortise it over the length of the contract. Rather than lets say 100m over 5 years it would be 100m over 1 year.

Nope. still amortized, but it's about liquidity.

 

[seanb85]

It's the first bid. It always takes 2-3 bids. So 60 million pounds is the starting price. It enables to go for 75-80 million as a last bid. Look at how Mudryk bids rose. A__G has said it countless times, that you don't offer what they demand in the first offer.

It's incredible how posters in here don't understand that. It's a NEGOTIATION, that's how negotiations work

Half of the time we didn't even hear about the "first bid" because it wasn't usually publicised. Growth of journos like Romano and clubs leaking bids to the press has changed all of that

 

[field442]

It's the first bid. It always takes 2-3 bids. So 60 million pounds is the starting price. It enables to go for 75-80 million as a last bid. Look at how Mudryk bids rose. A__G has said it countless times, that you don't offer what they demand in the first offer.

So by the third bid we might get up to somewhere in the region of what they originally wanted. That's all well and good if this was 3 weeks ago, but we're 3 days away from the window closing. By the time the third bid goes in it will probably be Sunday or Monday.

Like I said, this isn't the stage of the window where you **** around. 24 hours later and we still haven't made a second bid and are debating what to do next. Either you're serious about getting the player in or you're just ****ing around testing the waters.

 

[drippin]

I would like to try to find in depth stats for ball carrying, press evasion and dribbling because I think its extremely important in our system for opening up space for transitions / counter attacks.

Yeah he is the best option in this summer, for long-term and instant effect.

From the videos I have seen, he seems to be technical enough for dribbling. But that's an area for improvement.

Dribbles a bit less than Rice and Partey. Rice has 48% success rate, Partey 61%. Caicedo has 37,5%. He is only 21 years old so I think he can improve it quite a bit with the base level of skills he has.

 

[Paperino]

Don't know what this club is thinking, I feel sick, my only hope is that Elneny is back sooner than expected. He's not good enough either but he's 100x better than Sambi

It was madness to use Elneny as the third choice CM aswell. We would have been 5th if Partey or Xhaka was injury prone.

 

[dashsnow17]

Ornbomb in 3…2…1…

 

[Rasmi]

It's incredible how posters in here don't understand that. It's a NEGOTIATION, that's how negotiations work

Half of the time we didn't even hear about the "first bid" because it wasn't usually publicised. Growth of journos like Romano and clubs leaking bids to the press has changed all of that

Yeah we got about 80 hours to sign a midfielder to save our season. Negotiate all you want, but every hour that goes our need becomes stronger and the sellers position stronger. Good luck when in 31st of Jan you accept defeat and contact another club thinking you can nick their midfielder.

If nothing is agreed tonight Arsenal better move to next target.

 

[2Smokeyy]

From the Athletic:​

Why do Arsenal want Caicedo?​

It would be a significant transfer fee for a defensive midfielder who has made only 26 Premier League appearances, but some of Caicedo’s other numbers hint at why he has become one of the most-coveted players in the division.​

His first Premier League goal came in May but it’s been during the first half of 2022-23 that Caicedo — who scored at the World Cup against Senegal — has matured into the sort of talent that triggers the interest of the league’s biggest clubs. His output from a deep-lying position is about as close as you can get to Rodri without actually being the Manchester City player.

So far this season, only Rodri (4.15) has a higher xG value from open-play passing sequences he has initiated himself than Caicedo (3.08), while it’s only Rodri (90) — again — who has been involved in more open-play sequences that have ended in shots than Caicedo (55).

Defensively, Caicedo ranks in the top five per cent for his position for tackles and interceptions per 90 minutes across Europe’s top five leagues, while he is the third-best midfielder in the air among his Premier League contemporaries, with an aerial duels success rate of 70 per cent. He would also fit into Arsenal’s team pretty seamlessly too, having largely played as part of a double pivot for Brighton in a 4-2-3-1.

And while he isn’t in the team to create goalscoring opportunities, Caicedo’s 2022-23 open-play chance creation rate of 1.12 per 90 is roughly level with Rice (1.10), Bruno Guimaraes (1.15) and, you guessed it, Rodri (1.09).

City may have sold Gabriel Jesus and Oleksandr Zinchenko to them last summer, but there’s no chance Pep Guardiola would ever let Arsenal get hold of the man who anchors the heart of his midfield. If they succeed in signing Caicedo, Arsenal will arguably have done the next best thing.

 

[drippin]

Why is it bad for FFP? I thought you could amortize the amount over the term of the contract with FFP. So £60m and he would sign a 6 year contract you have £10m in the book each year. Or what has it to do with the relsease clause. I think that's more of a problem if you have the liquidity, no?

This is why release clauses are not so easily or often paid.

"However, the Blues are still refusing to pay his buyout clause to avoid infringing on Financial Fair Play regulations, according to Mackrell Sport.

Chelsea are pushing to agree on a transfer fee for the player to allow them to register the deal across the years in his contract. For example, if Chelsea were to sign Enzo for a transfer fee worth £70m, they could register his transfer fee as £7m per season on a seven-year deal.

If Chelsea were to pay his buyout clause (which is what Benfica wants) worth £120m, they will be mandated to record the full amount paid on their books for that financial year. That would immediately raise a red flag with FFP regulations and Chelsea could be heavily sanctioned.

Simply put, transfer fees can be split and recorded as yearly expenditures but buyout clauses cannot. This was exactly what Chelsea did in the transfer of Mykhailo Mudryk.

Unless Benfica can agree to let Fernandez go for a transfer fee, this deal may never see the light of day."

Why Chelsea are refusing to pay Enzo Fernandez buyout clause explained -- it's not about the price

Why Chelsea are refusing to pay Enzo Fernandez buyout clause explained -- it's not about the price

tribuna.com

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Either pay the money they want, which is likely £80m in January or move on. It's not rocket science.

We can't drag this out for days and miss out on bringing anyone in because all our eggs are in the Caicedo basket.

 

[samshere]

Same thing they did in the Summer window. Do nothing, even with the cloud hanging over Partey, and then suddenly do a trolley dash for Douglas Luiz with no time remaining.

 

[Bergkamp120]

Here is what I said, with links:

Player Comparison: Moisés Caicedo vs. Thomas Partey vs. Declan Rice vs. Yves Bissouma vs. Amadou Onana | FBref.com

Player Comparison: Moisés Caicedo vs. Thomas Partey vs. Declan Rice vs. Yves Bissouma vs. Amadou Onana

fbref.com

Moises Caicedo

I would one wait for a player until the summer he would truly have to be a world beater world class. Rice doesn't fit in to that category Give them Sambi on loan They'll turn him in to a £80m player.

arsenal-mania.com

Wow Rice is a level above the rest as a passer and playmaker. And he's just as good defensively as the rest (when taking into account his interceptions + WH don't do any pressing in the attacking 3rd).