Dani Ceballos: Time To Saybyeos?

AberGooner

Well-Known Member
He's done nothing from September to January as per usual. Now that we're approaching the spring he's starting to put in one or two (and I mean that literally) good performances and everyone wants to keep him.

How many times are we going to fall for this? We can't keep relying on purple patch players.

Anyone ever think why we have great highlight reels for Wenger teams from 2009-2012 but were nowhere near the title? Because those guys, Nasri, Arshavin, Song and the rest only used to turn it on for two months out of a 9 month season and not even at the same time.

Let's not add Ceballos to their ranks by signing him permanently.
Yeah it's almost like he's starting to put decent performances together as if he's playing for a new contract be it with us or a move to another side.

He was ok last night, wouldn't say he was amazing. Going to need a lot more than that and a lot sooner than February in a season to even think of signing him permanently.
 

dashsnow17

Sounds Like Hairspray
It's not so much starting quality we need. It's balance. I would say both Torrieira and Xhaka are both 'starting quality', but the balance of playing them both is awful. If you look at a team like Leicester for example, they have a well balanced team which is why they have done so well over the past 2 seasons. Our balance has been all over the place for a long time now especially in midfield and we are slowly begining to rectify this.

I'd say starting quality is exactly what we need. You watch Partey play for 5 mins and you don't need to debate that he's starting quality, you just know. If you're debating, like we are here with Ceballos and Xhaka, then you're talking about a rotation player most probably.

You don't go from 8th to 4th to 1st by improving your squad depth, you get there by improving your starting XI. We just need better players, simple as that.
 

RunTheTrap

In midfield with Cellabos
I'd say starting quality is exactly what we need. You watch Partey play for 5 mins and you don't need to debate that he's starting quality, you just know. If you're debating, like we are here with Ceballos and Xhaka, then you're talking about a rotation player most probably.

You don't go from 8th to 4th to 1st by improving your squad depth, you get there by improving your starting XI. We just need better players, simple as that.
Question to anyone here. If you truly believe squad depth is THAT important, could you please name me who the backup players were to Pires and Lauren back in the 03/04 season? Better yet, if that is too long ago to answer who is the backup to Lewandowski this season?
Point I’m trying to make is that depth does not matter. Especially to us right now. Depth only matters to the teams that are realistically challenging for multiple fronts. We can’t even look good against Europa teams and we’re about to finish 10th behind West Ham and Aston Villa. What’s Cellabos gonna do for us now? United bought Van de Beek as a backup to Bruno and he hasn’t done anything of significance. They spent £40 million on a squad player when that money could have gone towards Sancho/Grealish as starters and really pushed for the league. Instead they’re in a top 4 fight.
 
Last edited:

Maybe

Well-Known Member
Question to anyone here. If you truly believe squad depth is THAT important, could you please name me who the backup players were to Pires and Lauren back in the 03/04 season? Better yet, if that is too long ago to answer who is the backup to Lewandowski this season?
Point I’m trying to make is that depth does not matter. Especially to us right now. Depth only matters to the teams that are realistically challenging for multiple fronts. We can’t even look good against Europa teams and we’re about to finish 10th behind West Ham and Aston Villa. What’s Cellabos gonna do for us now? United bought Van de Beek as a backup to Bruno and he hasn’t done anything of significance. They spent £40 million on a squad player when that money could have gone towards Sancho/Grealish as starters and really pushed for the league. Instead they’re in a top 4 fight.
The best thing we can do when buying squad players is to look at players who can rotate on multiple positions, but that's not the case very often.

I was always saying that our squad players should be academy products and players like Martinelli. Investing anything over 10M in a player who will be on the bench or paying crazy salaries for a guy like Willian can only be done by people who have very little financial awareness, which was mostly the case over the past decade when any fool was able to waste millions because there was so much money in football.

Like you say, having VDB at United was stupid from both sides, player and the club, and the only hope of him playing is that Bruno gets seriously injured.

Saying that, I think Ceballos has some underrated qualities in him, like defending, and I would say he could be used more often within all 3 central positions and that makes him a candidate for a squad role, although the price could be too high for that
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
Trusted
Question to anyone here. If you truly believe squad depth is THAT important, could you please name me who the backup players were to Pires and Lauren back in the 03/04 season? Better yet, if that is too long ago to answer who is the backup to Lewandowski this season?
Point I’m trying to make is that depth does not matter. Especially to us right now. Depth only matters to the teams that are realistically challenging for multiple fronts. We can’t even look good against Europa teams and we’re about to finish 10th behind West Ham and Aston Villa. What’s Cellabos gonna do for us now? United bought Van de Beek as a backup to Bruno and he hasn’t done anything of significance. They spent £40 million on a squad player when that money could have gone towards Sancho/Grealish as starters and really pushed for the league. Instead they’re in a top 4 fight.
I agree that it's the starting 11 that need to be quality and also stay fit. To answer your question, I don't think Lauren actually had a backup. I think Keown filled in. Same for Pires although Reyes and Wiltord could do a job out wide. We had a smaller squad but with few players that would be a massive drop off in quality and work rate from the first choice. Where depth does matter to us is that we have too many key players who can't stay fit for a season. If Cole was as crocked as Tierney, we might not have been Invincible but Clichy still had the quality to make ten appearances. Can't say the same for Cedric or Elneny for example.
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
Ceballos is the only player in the squad who reminds me of Cazorla (although he is not Cazorla level).
We need to have at least 2-3 more of this kind of player in the squad. So Ceballos should be one of the last to get rid. We should sell all the “physical&athletic only” (skilless/shxt) players first.
 

gunner4lyfe

Well-Known Member
Would love to see him get game time with Partey. If, as some people have said, Partey has helped Xhaka's game, imagine what he could do for Ceb.
 

squallman

Still Pining for Wenger
I forgot to say this before so I'll say it now.

Ceballos is an Everton level player. I know that is ironic given the current league positions but I'm talking standards here.

Can he stand next to the great Arsenal midfielders? You all know the names. No.

Do we have other players of his quality already in the squad? Yes.

No brainer for me as to whether we should keep him. The answer is no.
 

AbouCuéllar

Well-Known Member
Definitely feel like there is a bias against Dani here, for some weird reason. He creates a lot of interesting actions for us, which I think makes him more valuable than Xhaka for us, despite Xhaka's better range of passing and better defensive responsibility. Really hoping Arteta will go with a Thomas-Dani pivot when Thomas is fit again.

The shocking miss from Auba an example, but in general he is very good at eliminating defenders through the middle of the park by feints or by feinting a pass and eliminating a defender, and also finding a good through ball to create a dangerous situation (not the same type of through ball Ödegaard provides, but the one he played to Bellerín to leave us for what should have been a clear goal is a typical one of his).
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Trusted
I'd say starting quality is exactly what we need. You watch Partey play for 5 mins and you don't need to debate that he's starting quality, you just know. If you're debating, like we are here with Ceballos and Xhaka, then you're talking about a rotation player most probably.
Not true at all, this forum has been wrong on players so many times over the years. Easy to see with all these old threads popping up now.

When was the last time the club signed a player and they became better?

I originally said something different but people will say in negative so I’d ask the question instead.
 
Last edited:

dashsnow17

Sounds Like Hairspray
Not true at all, this forum has been wrong on players so many times over the years. Easy to see with all these old threads popping up now.

When was the last time the club signed a player and they became better?

I originally said something different but people will say in negative so I’d ask the question instead.

I don't know, everything at this club just gets worse and worse.
 

Aussie_gunner123

Well-Known Member
Things I've read today, is it true we have agreed a deal with RM to complete a permanent transfer for Ceballos?

I won't worry about 2 posts but I've also read we are keen to agree a fee with Brighton for a permanent transfer for Matty Ryan aswell though.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
Trusted
Not true at all, this forum has been wrong on players so many times over the years. Easy to see with all these old threads popping up now.

When was the last time the club signed a player and they became better?

I originally said something different but people will say in negative so I’d ask the question instead.
I'd say Alexis became a bit better (or maybe we were a better fit). You'd probably have to go back to The Invibcibles or the early Cesc generation for real quality. Apart from that, there's Kos and Holding.
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Trusted
I'd say Alexis became a bit better (or maybe we were a better fit). You'd probably have to go back to The Invibcibles or the early Cesc generation for real quality. Apart from that, there's Kos and Holding.
Yeah was making a point. At best you have some that come and maintain a certain level for a while like Tierney or early Auba.

In reality though, as much as we bemoan the players and signings we actually sign a lot of young players in their early twenties and they rarely kick on for one reason or another. Highly rated too, like Ödegaard for example.

Signing old codgers like Willian is actually quite rare and he's flopped too. I don't think the club has the correct foundations or system on the pitch in place for new signings to come in and hit the ground running. Particularly attacking players.

Jota for example is a superb player but does he come to Arsenal and raise the level of the team? I doubt it. In reality he would most likely be dragged down over time after a bright start. We bemoaned the likes of Özil, Mustafi and Kolasinac but they have left and the team hasn't gotten better.

Now the "dead wood" has gone, the gaze of the fanbase has now been laser focused on Bellerin and Xhaka, they can go too but the team will still be sh*t.
 

Maybe

Well-Known Member
Now the "dead wood" has gone, the gaze of the fanbase has now been laser focused on Bellerin and Xhaka, they can go too but the team will still be sh*t.
Well if they go and we don't replace them with better players then the team will stay sh*t. Replacing them with great players will improve the team. I'd say our defense looks better with Gabriel there instead of Mustafi, but getting rid of Özil to onboard Willian wasn't the greatest decision of the club
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Trusted
Well if they go and we don't replace them with better players then the team will stay sh*t. Replacing them with great players will improve the team. I'd say our defense looks better with Gabriel there instead of Mustafi, but getting rid of Özil to onboard Willian wasn't the greatest decision of the club
I think until a proper manager and infrastructure is in place, it doesn't really matter who you sign, we don't (in my opinion) have a top 4 and above manager.

The club will just keep buying until they are lucky enough to find players who can manage themselves.

The better players carrying the squad in that time will either age or run down their contracts restarting the cycle with new signings getting binned in between. Pointless.
 

avenellroad

John Radford’s son
Not true at all, this forum has been wrong on players so many times over the years. Easy to see with all these old threads popping up now.

When was the last time the club signed a player and they became better?

I originally said something different but people will say in negative so I’d ask the question instead.

The problem is lack of inquisition about the purchased players from the higher ups. Kronke couldn’t give two ****s and neither could the likes of yes men he’s put in place like Venkatesam and the other execs.

David Dein was someone who cared deeply about this football club. The day he left was the day this club started to slowly die. Until we get similar type of leadership to what Dein showed about acting in the best interests of the CLUB and putting the CLUB first, we will be stuck as also-rans mired in mediocrity
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
Trusted
Yeah was making a point. At best you have some that come and maintain a certain level for a while like Tierney or early Auba.

In reality though, as much as we bemoan the players and signings we actually sign a lot of young players in their early twenties and they rarely kick on for one reason or another. Highly rated too, like Ødegaard for example.

Signing old codgers like Willian is actually quite rare and he's flopped too. I don't think the club has the correct foundations or system on the pitch in place for new signings to come in and hit the ground running. Particularly attacking players.

Jota for example is a superb player but does he come to Arsenal and raise the level of the team? I doubt it. In reality he would most likely be dragged down over time after a bright start. We bemoaned the likes of Özil, Mustafi and Kolasinac but they have left and the team hasn't gotten better.

Now the "dead wood" has gone, the gaze of the fanbase has now been laser focused on Bellerin and Xhaka, they can go too but the team will still be sh*t.
The main issue is the manager and the implementation of a clear vision. Over 14 months in, there's still debates about what Arteta wants because nobody really knows. Until we get a structure and take a chance on a better fitting player, nothing will work beyond individual star quality. Where I will disagree with you is the early Wenger years where he signed and made big stars out of no name players. It tailed off due to money and better scouting by other clubs. Imo, players get worse here because the execs sign them against the manager's wishes and we end up with no cohesion. Xhaka imo is largely the same as when he arrived except buying Partey has made him more serviceable. We can't do that for every player or keep a manager without a clear idea.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
Ceballos is the only player in the squad who reminds me of Cazorla (although he is not Cazorla level).
We need to have at least 2-3 more of this kind of player in the squad. So Ceballos should be one of the last to get rid. We should sell all the “physical&athletic only” (skilless/shxt) players first.

I’d actually say Ødegaard is closer to Cazorla given adjustment and development time, which Ceballos has had a lot more of at Arsenal. If I had a choice I’d rather bring in Ödegaard and Bissouma than Ödegaard and Ceballos, but that is all assuming transfer funds we might not have.
 

Latest posts

Match Prediction

  • Arsenal Win

    Votes: 14 32.6%
  • Draw

    Votes: 12 27.9%
  • Everton

    Votes: 17 39.5%
Top