Fabio Vieira: The Portuguese Project

[drippin]

Teabag wasn't a bodybuilder, and still had a huge impact, and everyone feared him.

Why should Vieira be then?

 

[db10_therza]

Yes, what I was responding to was the assertion made in the original post that adding muscle would somehow slow him down. Worth noting however that the NFL is full of players built like Adama Traore who are incredibly agile so again, muscle does not impede your agility if you are training properly to maintain your agility. Nobody expects Vieira to come back looking like Schwarzenegger at any rate.

I think the best example is young Hazard tbh. Was skinny as feck as a youth, put on a bit of muscle esp on his thighs, got quicker, stronger, more explosive, more “agile”. Could turn on a sixpence and flash right past you.

Then of course he liked it so much he kept trying (and succeeding) to put on weight

Edit: obviously Vieira is very different to a hazard. Was just the best example I could think of as skinny kid similar to Vieira build who improved with a bit of gym work.

 

[Geofranco]

100%

He has some talent and a good final ball if given time and space but he’s a square peg in a round hole in an Arteta system built around running and pressing and tempo and speed.

He’s not the same player as Pepe but it’s kind of the same effect. Has some talent but just doesn’t really fit with what the manager wants and what the other 10 players on the pitch are doing.

You could have said the exact same thing word for word about Xhaka before this season lol. It's pretty obvious Vieira has more natural talent than Pepe. He has legit end product and is just 21, you can see it's not a fluke either. His technique, timing and vision can be elite in his prime. He just needs to improve his physicality and ball retention.

 

[Geofranco]

He was objectively terrible. Except for the two absolute world class assists. Either commit to playing him 20 minutes a match, or send him out on loan to Huddersfield to learn how to get properly clattered. The talent is there, but Cesc at 16 stood up to the physicality better than this.

Alternately, Mikel's "rotation" is absurd. If Viera is terrible as an ACM with Partey and Xhaka behind him, he should be judged. How the hell am I supposed to fairly judge him with Elneny and Sambi behind him?

(For that matter, I'd like to see Sambi play again with 2/3 of our regular midfield. Sometimes our non-first eleven players only get in, in a situation set up for failure.)

This!

 

[Geofranco]

Eddie is a perfect example of that he was weak at 22 and look at his physical transformation.

No he wasn't. Eddie has been gradually improving his physicality and athleticism for the past 4 years. Especially since the pandemic started. His physique transformed and he put on some lean muscle mass. He is quicker, stronger and more agile than he was when he was playing U18 and U23 football. I remember not being impressed with his agility, speed or strength when he was younger at all.

 

[Riou]

I remember Ødegaard being a bit hit and miss when we first loaned him for Real, and now he is arguably the most inform playmaker in the league.

It's a hard league to adapt to, especially for a playmaker...but he has shown enough moments, to think this will be a very good signing.

His assists v Oxford were superb.

 

[Dutch D]

Will say his performances and lack of contribution (which is on Arteta, but for now I'm assuming it's because he wasn't ready) have disappointed me. I get that he needs to adjust to the physicality and pace of the league, but I am particularly disappointed by his sloppy first touch and sloppy passes. Technicians also need fast decisionmaking to stay out of the physical duels and he hasn't really shown he can do that yet.

He's a very strange signing so far and I mostly worry about the opportunity cost of having signed him. That said, we need to give players time to adjust and to show what they got. Next season is really the season we should judge him, but having spent that €40m on him and not a LCM/Partey cover is hurting us at the moment (don't think anyone expected a title run in the summer to be fair). Just looking at the other diminutive Portuguese player that was bought this summer I watched a bunch of PSG matches in the CL and Vitinha seems to have slotted in seamlessly (obviously he's a different player, not one to contribute a final ball).

 

[drippin]

Will say his performances and lack of contribution (which is on Arteta, but for now I'm assuming it's because he wasn't ready) have disappointed me. I get that he needs to adjust to the physicality and pace of the league, but I am particularly disappointed by his sloppy first touch and sloppy passes. Technicians also need fast decisionmaking to stay out of the physical duels and he hasn't really shown he can do that yet.

He's a very strange signing so far and I mostly worry about the opportunity cost of having signed him. That said, we need to give players time to adjust and to show what they got. Next season is really the season we should judge him, but having spent that €40m on him and not a LCM/Partey cover is hurting us at the moment (don't think anyone expected a title run in the summer to be fair). Just looking at the other diminutive Portuguese player that was bought this summer I watched a bunch of PSG matches in the CL and Vitinha seems to have slotted in seamlessly (obviously he's a different player, not one to contribute a final ball).

He had not started a proper game for two months. Friendlies, yes. Also take into account that Bodo away was an artificial field. Oxford field was just horrible. That's not optimal. Also when Xhaka came in, it was easier for him to play. The players should not be judged only based on playing with mostly 2nd team.

We needed an Ødegaard backup/rotation. It's not easy to find, a player who is willing to be on the bench a lot. Vieira will be likely paid in many installments, and his wages are like 45k pounds per week.

Vitinha was out of reach, he was PSG bound. No reason to look at him. Arsenal are below PSG in attraction, hopefully not for too long.

 

[Dutch D]

He had not started a proper game for two months. Friendlies, yes. Also take into account that Bodo away was an artificial field. Oxford field was just horrible. That's not optimal. Also when Xhaka came in, it was easier for him to play. The players should not be judged only based on playing with mostly 2nd team.

We needed an Ødegaard backup/rotation. It's not easy to find, a player who is willing to be on the bench a lot. Vieira will be likely paid in many installments, and his wages are like 45k pounds per week.

Vitinha was out of reach, he was PSG bound. No reason to look at him. Arsenal are below PSG in attraction, hopefully not for too long.

I agree with everything you say, but I still had higher expectations at the start. Hope he can really show his talent soon.

 

[TromsoGooner]

He had not started a proper game for two months. Friendlies, yes. Also take into account that Bodo away was an artificial field. Oxford field was just horrible. That's not optimal. Also when Xhaka came in, it was easier for him to play. The players should not be judged only based on playing with mostly 2nd team.

We needed an Ødegaard backup/rotation. It's not easy to find, a player who is willing to be on the bench a lot. Vieira will be likely paid in many installments, and his wages are like 45k pounds per week.

Vitinha was out of reach, he was PSG bound. No reason to look at him. Arsenal are below PSG in attraction, hopefully not for too long.

Has he really had many games on a good pitch playing with Saka, Ødegaard Partey and co? Can`t be many. Brentford away was one and he did pretty well there

 

[drippin]

Has he really had many games on a good pitch playing with Saka, Ødegaard Partey and co? Can`t be many. Brentford away was one and he did pretty well there

In EPL he has played 90 minutes against Brentford away, and scored in the 0-3 win. And 74 minutes against Wolves away, and he assisted in the 0-2 win.

Otherwise in EPL a 27 minute game, 17 minutes and the rest are 10 minutes and under.

In the PSV games he played with more first eleven players, but in the other game he was RW, and in both of those games Sambi also played.

I don't think it looks bad at all, for a player with no pre-season and having been in EPL for 6 months. Who we all knew was not a physical player.

 

[MutableEarth]

Arteta really likes this player, and I kinda get it. He has the ability to completely split a game open and make a decisive contribution. That's the thing that's really stood out to me in the little we've seen of him. The general play is certainly lacking a little but I'm taking other factors into consideration - the injury/lack of pre-season, the adapting to a slightly deeper role in a much more physical league; two significant examples.

I can't say I'm terribly worried about this signing. I think it's a decent punt and I can see him being a useful option once he's more settled. We have a settled enough team that we can carry some end product players who perhaps aren't the most geared to controlling the game. It does raise some issues re Ødegaard though as there isn't really a player in the squad who can replace him, moreso than even Partey I'd say. Vieira is the obvious option but that's clearly the next step in his development rather than where he is at.

 

[Geofranco]

Arteta really likes this player, and I kinda get it. He has the ability to completely split a game open and make a decisive contribution. That's the thing that's really stood out to me in the little we've seen of him. The general play is certainly lacking a little but I'm taking other factors into consideration - the injury/lack of pre-season, the adapting to a slightly deeper role in a much more physical league; two significant examples.

I can't say I'm terribly worried about this signing. I think it's a decent punt and I can see him being a useful option once he's more settled. We have a settled enough team that we can carry some end product players who perhaps aren't the most geared to controlling the game. It does raise some issues re Ødegaard though as there isn't really a player in the squad who can replace him, moreso than even Partey I'd say. Vieira is the obvious option but that's clearly the next step in his development rather than where he is at.

I like Vieira. But we really should have spent that money on another talented CDM. If Partey gets hurt, we are screwed. Also I can see Nwaneri thriving in that Ødegaard position if he develops the way we hope.

 

[MutableEarth]

I like Vieira. But we really should have spent that money on another talented CDM. If Partey gets hurt, we are screwed. Also I can see Nwaneri thriving in that Ødegaard position if he develops the way we hope.

Yeah, Nwaneri definitely looks to be in consideration for one of the 8 spots, but he's still 15 so I'm trying not to make any predictions there!

Arteta trusts Elneny and didn't feel it was necessary. I obviously disagree but then again, the option I want for 6 now (Romeo Lavia) wouldn't have been available then so it kinda weighs up.

 

[boonthegoon]

Yeah, Nwaneri definitely looks to be in consideration for one of the 8 spots, but he's still 15 so I'm trying not to make any predictions there!

Arteta trusts Elneny and didn't feel it was necessary. I obviously disagree but then again, the option I want for 6 now (Romeo Lavia) wouldn't have been available then so it kinda weighs up.

Theo was waxing lyrical about lavia too!

 

[MutableEarth]

Theo was waxing lyrical about lavia too!

I bet he was. Lavia is incredible, I've been a fan since he pocketed Reiss in an U21 game 2 years ago .

 

[albakos]

I bet he was. Lavia is incredible, I've been a fan since he pocketed Reiss in an U21 game 2 years ago .

What about the midfielder from Fulham? You were a big fan of his too.

 

[MutableEarth]

What about the midfielder from Fulham? You were a big fan of his too.

Fulham midfielder???

 

[albakos]

Fulham midfielder???

I recall you mentioning Anguissa, because I couldn't remember the name on my previous post.

 

[MutableEarth]

I recall you mentioning Anguissa, because I couldn't remember the name on my previous post.

Ah, I got confused - he doesn't play for them anymore. He actually played tonight for Napoli, who killed Juventus 5-1 earlier. I do like him, but think he'd be more of an 8 these days.