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Guys on course to get 15 -18 goals this season.
That’s phenomenal.
That’s phenomenal.
His loan spell was pivotal for Arsenal getting him at such a good price. Ødegaard is a smart dudeTo be honest I wasn't that impressed with his first 6 months here. But it's normal a young player to a new league.
When I used to watch Buendia play for Norwich he always looked like he had another level or two in him. I think he was breaking into the national team too.
Needless to say I was wrong at the time. I'm really happy we got Ødegaard. Has been brilliant this season as has everyone. And Buendia has been crap.
In hindsight, Ødegaard's move to Real Madrid didn't work out, but comparing it to Haaland is apples and oranges.Deciding to ditch Real Madrid for Arsenal is the best career move he has made. I've always maintained that he has been very poorly advised, unlike Haaland. Haaland used clubs as stepping stones to advance his career bit by bit. Ødegaard went for the biggest club they could find.
To go to Real Madrid, of all clubs, when you need to develop as a young player was a very poor choice. Fortunately, he took the right decision when he came here.
I think there is more to come from him, and more to come from this Arsenal team. Hopefully...there is some more to come from Edu in January too...
Don't get why the guy gets so much stick on here.
Top scorer now! “But but he needs to score more goals” take a day off
I agree with the post in spirit (worse things than getting fine, well-chosen loans to Holland and la Real for your development, and learning in one of the best environments at Castilla / Madrid first team training) but I will say that it was more than Modric's unprecedented longevity.Frankly, his biggest impediment at Real was probably Modric's unprecedented longevity. Modric is 37 and he has been starting for Real Madrid for over a decade. I'm sure everyone thought Ødegaard could be Modric's successor, and few people expected Modric to play at the highest level for this long.
Since Modric's form never dipped, Real Madrid needed to loan Ødegaard to get minutes. Two seasons in the Eredivisie with Heerenveen and then Vitesse Arnhem, and then one season in La Liga with Real Sociedad were smart loans for him. Then he came back to Real Madrid and still couldn't start over Modric. Not a big surprise. He then went on loan with us, and the rest is history.
He's getting a lot of criticism for poor shooting but he's 1 in 2 in the league as an AM so far which is world class numbers for a CF, don't think he's the best pure striker of a ball like a Lampard or whatever (obviously) but we've got a very good heartbeat player in Ødegaard who seems to have a knack for scoring important goals.
Although he's miles off an Özil or a Fabregas creatively he does an awful lot of the same things right that Fabregas did for us, including the ability to control a game (both tempo and possession) as well as showing high workrate. He also complements the pressing system that we do so well as a unit. I've been delighted with him this season tbh, not sure where the criticism is coming from but ofc there's room for improvement, too.
So...
Saka:
3 npG to 3.8 xG
Last season-- 9 npG to 10.2 npxG
Martinelli:
5 npG to 3.0 npxG
Last season--5 npG to 7.6 npxG
Jesus:
5 npG to 7.4 npxG
Last season--7 npG to 10.0 npxG
Ødegaard:
4 npG to 2.6 npxG
Last season-- 7 npG to 5.2 npxG
Didn't do Xhaka but I'm guessing he's quite outdoing his xG so far.
Way too small a sample to judge on this season but Saka and Jesus seem more or less in their line, ie it does seem a real thing that they're below average finishers, and Martinelli reversing his trend from last season, so perhaps he is improving as a finisher or perhaps it's just luck and small samples, or perhaps it's both.
Ødegaard would seem to be a far better finisher than people give him credit for, I'm saying this because he's outperformed his xG in every season there is data for it (la Real 4 npG to 3 npxG, Vitesse 7 to 4.6). Of course being a good finisher and a good scorer have little to do with each other.
This season and the last Ødegaard seems to score better than his xG. The problem with him in EPL has always been that he takes too long to shoot, so there will be blocks. But he needs to shoot once in a while even only to keep defenders guessing.Edu’s Relentless Transfer Targets: January 2023
We haven’t been extremely lucky. We just haven’t been extremely unlucky for once. We’ve had our fair share of injuries this season they just happen to be in areas we have depth (ie left back). We had the team and depth we needed for a top 4 finish. But the goal posts have changed and we are...arsenal-mania.com
Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that Ødegaard is a better goal scorer (and certainly finisher) than he is given credit for, at this point. The xG and G differential this season now sits at 6 Gs to 4.1 xG.
I'm not sure where are you pulling that he isn't a goal threat, as he has a very good shot. He's no Özil who can only kick the ball towards the field to bounce it to goal.
Anyway, we have to remember he hasn't even played a full year in EPL, and usually any player is given a year to adjust before attacking them too much.
You really don't rate Ødegaard it seems in almost any aspect, so we'll see.
I will not have any negative comments on that ridiculous Özil technique, mate, it's absolute madness and I know no one who can actually replicate it in a training situation, much less a game. I still struggle to wrap my head around the idea he actually did it on purpose.This season and the last Ødegaard seems to score better than his xG. The problem with him in EPL has always been that he takes too long to shoot, so there will be blocks. But he needs to shoot once in a while even only to keep defenders guessing.
Hmm, should I tag Nacho? 7th October 2021:
Hmm, should I tag Nacho? 7th October 2021:
I tried replicating it once in a 5 a side game. Almost broke my ankle. Ffing insane.I will not have any negative comments on that ridiculous Özil technique, mate, it's absolute madness and I know no one who can actually replicate it in a training situation, much less a game. I still struggle to wrap my head around the idea he actually did it on purpose.
I actually think Özil and Ødegaard are pretty similar goal scoring and finishing wise (unfortunately xG on FBref only goes as far back as 2017-18, but there we have 4 to 4.4, 5 to 1.7, and 1 to 1.4, so 10 npGs to 7.5 npxG in the twilight of his career). Don't have much of that long shot that fans and especially british fans love to see in their 10, but are better finishers than given credit for. Özil was better at knowing when to shoot or when to pass because Özil was a god and the best of his generation of final third decision making, but Ødegaard while not quite that level isn't bad at that and is getting better. We know what Ødegaard is better at (everything in the defensive phase, perhaps getting into goal scoring positions, though so many unequal factors to make a good comparison).
Does it go only to 2017-2018? There's no warning or nothing about it in the comparison page. This is pretty dangerous for comparisons if it's skewed and there is no warning.I will not have any negative comments on that ridiculous Özil technique, mate, it's absolute madness and I know no one who can actually replicate it in a training situation, much less a game. I still struggle to wrap my head around the idea he actually did it on purpose.
I actually think Özil and Ødegaard are pretty similar goal scoring and finishing wise (unfortunately xG on FBref only goes as far back as 2017-18, but there we have 4 to 4.4, 5 to 1.7, and 1 to 1.4, so 10 npGs to 7.5 npxG in the twilight of his career). Don't have much of that long shot that fans and especially british fans love to see in their 10, but are better finishers than given credit for. Özil was better at knowing when to shoot or when to pass because Özil was a god and the best of his generation of final third decision making, but Ødegaard while not quite that level isn't bad at that and is getting better. We know what Ødegaard is better at (everything in the defensive phase, perhaps getting into goal scoring positions, though so many unequal factors to make a good comparison).
The finish for the second goal vs wolves was fabulous. He assessed his options and punished perfectly, to me, it’s an area he can improve inI will not have any negative comments on that ridiculous Özil technique, mate, it's absolute madness and I know no one who can actually replicate it in a training situation, much less a game. I still struggle to wrap my head around the idea he actually did it on purpose.
I actually think Özil and Ødegaard are pretty similar goal scoring and finishing wise (unfortunately xG on FBref only goes as far back as 2017-18, but there we have 4 to 4.4, 5 to 1.7, and 1 to 1.4, so 10 npGs to 7.5 npxG in the twilight of his career). Don't have much of that long shot that fans and especially british fans love to see in their 10, but are better finishers than given credit for. Özil was better at knowing when to shoot or when to pass because Özil was a god and the best of his generation of final third decision making, but Ødegaard while not quite that level isn't bad at that and is getting better. We know what Ødegaard is better at (everything in the defensive phase, perhaps getting into goal scoring positions, though so many unequal factors to make a good comparison).
Yeah, only goes to 17-18, or else those 33 npG to 7.5 xG at Arsenal would've made him the best finisher of all timeDoes it go only to 2017-2018? There's no warning or nothing about it in the comparison page. This is pretty dangerous for comparisons if it's skewed and there is no warning.
Anyway, that skill of Özil's was great and I loved it. It was just a joke, because the other poster didn't rate Ødegaard's goal threat at all, so I made a comparison.
But yeah, Özil wasn't a bad finisher, just didn't have much power in it or didn't do long shots like Ødegaard does and can.
It can be a huge asset if a playmaker keeps the defenders guessing all the time if he will shoot, rather than the assumption is that he will pass it anyway. Long shots in this sense can be very important too.
Player Comparison: Mesut Özil vs. Martin Ødegaard | FBref.com
Player Comparison: Mesut Özil vs. Martin Ødegaardfbref.com
It's absolute madness, mate, when I say I still struggle to wrap my head around it I mean it--I only believe it because Wenger says he really means it and I guess he must do it in training--I don't know if it's only something you can do with a certain type of grass or what (it feels like if anything it would be easier on the synthetic fields I've mostly tried it on), because I can't replicate anything like it nor can anyone I know, I actually asked a mate of mine who played for Inter Movistar (pro futsal team here in Madrid) who is probably the most technical gifted player I've ever played with (like many futsal players who also grew up playing pro football or in big academies as or more technically gifted than a lot of top level players) to try it after showing him a video, and he gave it a few tries and said 'no ****ing way.'I tried replicating it once in a 5 a side game. Almost broke my ankle. Ffing insane.
It's absolute madness, mate, when I say I still struggle to wrap my head around it I mean it--I only believe it because Wenger says he really means it and I guess he must do it in training--I don't know if it's only something you can do with a certain type of grass or what (it feels like if anything it would be easier on the synthetic fields I've mostly tried it on), because I can't replicate anything like it nor can anyone I know, I actually asked a mate of mine who played for Inter Movistar (pro futsal team here in Madrid) who is probably the most technical gifted player I've ever played with (like many futsal players who also grew up playing pro football or in big academies as or more technically gifted than a lot of top level players) to try it after showing him a video, and he gave it a few tries and said 'no ****ing way.'
I really would love to ask Santi Cazorla how Özil did it in training, why he can do it and Santi can't if Santi can't, and if it's just about some weird ****ing genetic quirk in Özil's leg, lol, because I honestly don't get it.
Long text, so not sure if I understood all. But yeah I don't mean "long long shots", I mean just outside of the box or a couple meters from it. Pretty sure Arteta doesn't support shooting from too long distance. I can't remember Özil having a powerful shot like Ødegaard.Yeah, only goes to 17-18, or else those 33 npG to 7.5 xG at Arsenal would've made him the best finisher of all time
No, I know you were joking, I was being light-hearted too.
I'm not so sure Özil didn't have a long shot like Ode has shown, I seem to remember a few goals from distance early in his career with Bremen and Madrid and Germany, but I'm a bit too lazy to go to YouTube and confirm (****ing hell I'm getting old, Özil arriving at Madrid feels like it should be yesterday but it's actually almost 15 years ago ).
Re: the bolded honestly I have my doubts about this, but it's just suspicions / intuitions without much basis. I think the natural trajectory for players like Özil and Ødegaard is to take a bit more of those long shots earlier in their career, but continue maturing and realising the closer the shot and the more the right pass is made using the feint of that shot the better (while obviously, like most top playmakers of their type, already having a natural sense of this from the beginning). That's my feeling from playing too and from the data obviously we have about shot selection and distance, but it's true that it's really hard to quantify what kind of value having defenders fear that long shot has, and it's true that that feint has more value if defenders are really worried about you shooting.
Dunno, like other parts of Ødegaard's game, it's something he can improve...I think the shots I would most like him to improve upon are the ones more toward the edge of the box centrally, or just on the edge, inside the half-moon, like one he took against Liverpool in a really dangerous area and put right at the keeper, those are the ones that are really worth taking (or ones he's skied on cut backs and first time shots in those areas) and add a lot of value if you increase your quality from there (though, again, looking at Ode's xG, I wonder from an objective standpoint how much room there is for improvement there, if any, we'll see as samples get bigger and bigger). But tbh the most value added is in always making the right decision or making it say 95%+ of the time as we might say for Özil...for example there was a moment against Chelsea--I think?--where he shot instead of making a pass to Saka in a far better position that really pissed me off, and there's more value in having a playmaker who always makes the right decision to give Saka that pass than it is in having a playmaker outscores his xG by 200% (are there players that do it by 300% or 400%? Objective statistics seem to tell us no--because if there were just on the weight of these shots they'd outscore their xG by a few goals a season--but when you consider that the goal probabilities are probably like 10% at most from that position, it certainly feels like people like De Bruyne or Valverde this season would be...is it that De Bruyne outperforms his xG exponentially on a season to season basis from those positions, but then underperforms it exponentially in closer situations in the box, so it evens out? Questions only someone with access to Opta data can answer...interesting that de Bruyne has 43 npGs to 27.9 npxG, compared to Lewa's for example 147 npGs to 142 npxG since FBRef has data, so perhaps indeed, there's more scope for attacking midfielders to outperform their xG for this very reason...or perhaps it's just small sample size effects, due to them shooting less than forwards, which would make this Ode conversation a bit useless...) from the position I'm talking about in the Liverpool game, which might be worth a goal or two more a season than the player who just meets his xG or scores at a 90% rate of his xG from that position
It's absolute madness, mate, when I say I still struggle to wrap my head around it I mean it--I only believe it because Wenger says he really means it and I guess he must do it in training--I don't know if it's only something you can do with a certain type of grass or what (it feels like if anything it would be easier on the synthetic fields I've mostly tried it on), because I can't replicate anything like it nor can anyone I know, I actually asked a mate of mine who played for Inter Movistar (pro futsal team here in Madrid) who is probably the most technical gifted player I've ever played with (like many futsal players who also grew up playing pro football or in big academies as or more technically gifted than a lot of top level players) to try it after showing him a video, and he gave it a few tries and said 'no ****ing way.'
I really would love to ask Santi Cazorla how Özil did it in training, why he can do it and Santi can't if Santi can't, and if it's just about some weird ****ing genetic quirk in Özil's leg, lol, because I honestly don't get it.