Mesut Özil: Över and Öut

[Bloodbather]

I’ve never understood the Özil hate, if it’s about the way he left then why isn’t that same energy kept for Fabregas when he made a mockery of the club in public and downed tools before making the move to Barcelona. Same with his political views, if they’re criticising him based on that then they should do the same for Zinchenko, right?

Still, I’m pretty sure those same folks that are hating were tingling when we signed him and he was at the club.

In what world are Zinchenko's political views and Özil's political views comparable?

Zinchenko protested against his country being invaded by an irredentist, corrupt tyrant with a terrible human rights record. Özil openly endorses a corrupt tyrant with a terrible human rights record in his parents' homeland, one that referred to the country of which Özil is a citizen as "Nazi remnants". Özil's politics doesn't just consist of him voicing out his opposition to the treatment of Uyghurs in China, nobody except for China and their allies would be opposed to his sentiment there.

There's also the fact that he loved playing the victim whenever he got called out on his behaviour or play. Kept playing the oppression card whenever he got criticized for his play and attitude in Germany and Arsenal, and when he rightfully got called out by Germans for being an Erdoğan supporter.

 

[jones]

In what world are Zinchenko's political views and Özil's political views comparable?

Zinchenko protested against his country being invaded by an irredentist, corrupt tyrant with a terrible human rights record. Özil openly endorses a corrupt tyrant with a terrible human rights record in his parents' homeland, one that referred to the country of which Özil is a citizen as "Nazi remnants". Özil's politics doesn't just consist of him voicing out his opposition to the treatment of Uyghurs in China, nobody except for China and their allies would be opposed to his sentiment there.

There's also the fact that he loved playing the victim whenever he got called out on his behaviour or play. Kept playing the oppression card whenever he got criticized for his play and attitude in Germany and Arsenal, and when he rightfully got called out by Germans for being an Erdoğan supporter.

I don't think @2Smokeyy talks about the Erdogan stuff but his comments on Xinjiang. Also obviously Zinchenko is fully in his rights to criticise Putin's actions but there's a difference to doing that and going on a Piers Morgan show saying all Russian and Belrusian athletes should be banned from sports.

Also since you're Turkish I understand the opposition to Özil being all chummy with Erdogan but you're way off about him playing the oppression card and the "criticism" he's faced. We've had German footballers say there's no racism in football in Germany, FA presidents and club CEOs giving him all sorts of abuse even politicians going on social media calling him a goatfucking traitor. You don't have to agree with everything he's said and done to be opposed to the hysterical witch hunt in this country in 2018.

 

[2Smokeyy]

In what world are Zinchenko's political views and Özil's political views comparable?

Zinchenko protested against his country being invaded by an irredentist, corrupt tyrant with a terrible human rights record. Özil openly endorses a corrupt tyrant with a terrible human rights record in his parents' homeland, one that referred to the country of which Özil is a citizen as "Nazi remnants". Özil's politics doesn't just consist of him voicing out his opposition to the treatment of Uyghurs in China, nobody except for China and their allies would be opposed to his sentiment there.

There's also the fact that he loved playing the victim whenever he got called out on his behaviour or play.

I’m not referring to the finer details. My point was on the whole stance of mixing football with politics like the club and some on here were suggesting. They completely distanced themselves from Özil’s comments but didn’t seem to be too fussed about Zinchenko sharing his views with a virus like Piers Morgan and his controversial show.

People can’t selectively choose when to involve politics within the game. The same with the footballing bodies. I remember Celtic fans got fined a few years back by UEFA for showing their support of Palestine with flags in a CL game but the same is not applied in other scenarios

 

[Xln]

In what world are Zinchenko's political views and Özil's political views comparable?

Zinchenko protested against his country being invaded by an irredentist, corrupt tyrant with a terrible human rights record. Özil openly endorses a corrupt tyrant with a terrible human rights record in his parents' homeland, one that referred to the country of which Özil is a citizen as "Nazi remnants". Özil's politics doesn't just consist of him voicing out his opposition to the treatment of Uyghurs in China, nobody except for China and their allies would be opposed to his sentiment there.

There's also the fact that he loved playing the victim whenever he got called out on his behaviour or play. Kept playing the oppression card whenever he got criticized for his play and attitude in Germany and Arsenal, and when he rightfully got called out by Germans for being an Erdoğan supporter.

Thank you.

 

[Xln]

I don't think @2Smokeyy talks about the Erdogan stuff but his comments on Xinjiang. Also obviously Zinchenko is fully in his rights to criticise Putin's actions but there's a difference to doing that and going on a Piers Morgan show saying all Russian and Belrusian athletes should be banned from sports.

Also since you're Turkish I understand the opposition to Özil being all chummy with Erdogan but you're way off about him playing the oppression card and the "criticism" he's faced. We've had German footballers say there's no racism in football in Germany, FA presidents and club CEOs giving him all sorts of abuse even politicians going on social media calling him a goatfucking traitor. You don't have to agree with everything he's said and done to be opposed to the hysterical witch hunt in this country in 2018.

Özil was bending over Merkel,called himself a German and a symbol of good immigration etc. Few years later he doesn't feel German anymore and twerks for that pissfaced humanoid religion abusing fk Erdogan.
Anyone twerking for tyrants should be expelled from Europe.

 

[Bloodbather]

I’m not referring to the finer details. My point was on the whole stance of mixing football with politics like the club and some on here were suggesting. They completely distanced themselves from Özil’s comments but didn’t seem to be too fussed about Zinchenko sharing his views with a virus like Piers Morgan and his controversial show.

People can’t selectively choose when to involve politics within the game. The same with the footballing bodies. I remember Celtic fans got fined a few years back by UEFA for showing their support of Palestine with flags in a CL game but the same is not applied in other scenarios

Well yeah, I expect consistency from people in that regard as well and realize it doesn't always happen. For my part, I think everyone should be allowed to involve politics within the game whenever they want, whether that's the administrators, club officials, players, referees, fans, or anyone else.

I think the particulars of the political views expressed comes into play in the case of something like Zinchenko and Özil, though. I also think Zinchenko was out to lunch about calling for Russian or Belarusian players to be banned, for what it's worth. Not every Russian or Belarusian supports the tyrants in charge of their country.

 

[Xln]

I remember Celtic fans got fined a few years back by UEFA for showing their support of Palestine with flags in a CL game but the same is not applied in other scenarios

UEFA is a joke. Super league should have happened to be honest.

 

[Bloodbather]

I don't think @2Smokeyy talks about the Erdogan stuff but his comments on Xinjiang. Also obviously Zinchenko is fully in his rights to criticise Putin's actions but there's a difference to doing that and going on a Piers Morgan show saying all Russian and Belrusian athletes should be banned from sports.

Also since you're Turkish I understand the opposition to Özil being all chummy with Erdogan but you're way off about him playing the oppression card and the "criticism" he's faced. We've had German footballers say there's no racism in football in Germany, FA presidents and club CEOs giving him all sorts of abuse even politicians going on social media calling him a goatfucking traitor. You don't have to agree with everything he's said and done to be opposed to the hysterical witch hunt in this country in 2018.

It would be stupid to claim there are no racists in Germany giving racial abuse to Özil, of course, so I have no grief about Özil defending himself against such things. But I do think Özil has a way of dodging justified critiques making use of incidents of that sort, completely failing to address his own faults in the matter. Gündoğan did this for example, he was in the same picture as Özil but he didn't double down on it. It has since emerged that "we just took a picture with the president of our parents' homeland" argument only really applied to Gündoğan.

"Goatfucking traitor" is a bit much, but I do think Germans were completely justified in being angry with him supporting someone who called Germany "Nazi remnants", and was on a verbal rampage against Western Europe in general. I was angry with that statement on behalf of Germans myself, and I have nothing to do with Germany whatsoever.

 

[jones]

Özil was bending over Merkel,called himself a German and a symbol of good immigration etc. Few years later he doesn't feel German anymore and twerks for that pissfaced humanoid religion abusing fk Erdogan.
Anyone twerking for tyrants should be expelled from Europe.

That's not really what happened. I don't like Erdogan either but in reality none of the issues he's had here were related to him, certain section of this country were licking their lips at having a reason to finally unload on him.

 

[jones]

It would be stupid to claim there are no racists in Germany giving racial abuse to Özil, of course, so I have no grief about Özil defending himself against such things. But I do think Özil has a way of dodging justified critiques making use of incidents of that sort, completely failing to address his own faults in the matter. Gündoğan did this for example, he was in the same picture as Özil but he didn't double down on it. It has since emerged that "we just took a picture with the president of our parents' homeland" argument only really applied to Gündoğan.

"Goatfucking traitor" is a bit much, but I do think Germans were completely justified in being angry with him supporting someone who called Germany "Nazi remnants", and was on a verbal rampage against Western Europe in general. I was angry with that statement on behalf of Germans myself, and I have nothing to do with Germany whatsoever.

Agree fully with the first paragraph.

The second I can't at all and I think if you knew what German media, public etc say about Turkey (all of you, not just the president) as impossible as it seems now you'd probably side with Erdogan. It's a good thing you get angry on someone else's behalf when they get insulted, but it's also a good thing you don't live here to see the intense hatred a large part of this country fosters against your people.

 

[Xln]

That's not really what happened. I don't like Erdogan either but in reality none of the issues he's had here were related to him, certain section of this country were licking their lips at having a reason to finally unload on him.

You are most probably right on what happened in Germany but I know that Özil is a contradicting; lying dog so I have no mercy for him.

but it's also a good thing you don't live here to see the intense hatred a large part of this country fosters against your people.

Ask the average Turk in Germany about their opinions on Germans and Germany and you will have the same results.

As to why Germans don't like (German)Turks should be on another thread but I am on the side of Germans on this one, never seen such embarassing people in my entire life and that goes for Belgian/Dutch Turks too.

Since recently I can't say any good words on this unemployed humanoids in EU, so I might be biased.

 

[Bloodbather]

You are most probably right on what happened in Germany but I know that Özil is a contradicting; lying dog so I have no mercy for him.

Ask the average Turk in Germany about their opinions on Germans and Germany and you will have the same results.

As to why Germans don't like (German)Turks should be on another thread but I am on the side of Germans on this one, never seen such embarassing people in my entire life and that goes for Belgian/Dutch Turks too.

Since recently I can't say any good words on this unemployed humanoids in EU, so I might be biased.

I would suggest caution about clear-cut generalizations, let's recognize the people who deviate from the average. But yes, a majority of Turks in Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France, and Austria subscribe to views and beliefs that are completely at odds with what we think of as Western European values, or the values specified by the EU. Erdoğan received 70+% of the vote among dual-citizens in the aforementioned countries, which means there are only a few Turkish provinces that are more staunchly pro-Erdoğan than those countries. Cities like Berlin, Amsterdam, and Paris are referred to as "Erdoğan strongholds" here, which sounds ****ing ridiculous, but it's true.

As a Turkish person in Turkey, I could go on about my opinion about such fellow Turks living in those Western European countries, but I don't want to derail the thread further.

Agree fully with the first paragraph.

The second I can't at all and I think if you knew what German media, public etc say about Turkey (all of you, not just the president) as impossible as it seems now you'd probably side with Erdogan. It's a good thing you get angry on someone else's behalf when they get insulted, but it's also a good thing you don't live here to see the intense hatred a large part of this country fosters against your people.

I actually understand what you mean. It's just a terrible side-effect of these collective identities that we can't help but subscribe to. I actually criticise my country for the same reasons they do, but because I'm Turkish, some of them would associate me with the very things I criticize about my country, creating a difficult situation. This sort of nuance about individuality is usually lost among so many people, hence the difficulty of navigating it all. This is actually the main reason I never considered immigrating to Germany, I know what the perception of "Turkish" is over there, even though I don't fit it at all. It doesn't help that most Germans' perception of "Turks" is based on German-Turks, not the people of Turkey.

 

[Xln]

I would suggest caution about clear-cut generalizations, let's recognize the people who deviate from the average. But yes, a majority of Turks in Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France, and Austria subscribe to views and beliefs that are completely at odds with what we think of as Western European values, or the values specified by the EU. Erdoğan received 70+% of the vote among dual-citizens in the aforementioned countries, which means there are only a few Turkish provinces that are more staunchly pro-Erdoğan than those countries. Cities like Berlin, Amsterdam, and Paris are referred to as "Erdoğan strongholds" here, which sounds ****ing ridiculous, but it's true.

As a Turkish person in Turkey, I could go on about my opinion about such fellow Turks living in those Western European countries, but I don't want to derail the thread further.

I went bit overboard but you are right. And on your opinion you won't share here we are most probably on the same page.

 

[Bloodbather]

Thank you to the mod that moved the discussion from the Havertz thread over here, whoever it was. Hate derailing threads but it happens sometimes.

 

[Riou]

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Someone should set this thread on fire, or banish it to Xinjiang....

 

[Blankety Blank]

They completely distanced themselves from Özil’s comments but didn’t seem to be too fussed about Zinchenko sharing his views with a virus like Piers Morgan and his controversial show.

I agree politics shouldnt impact sport but unfortunately at times does. As said Özil comments were a general human rights/religious freedom issue. Unfortunately this kinda stuff goes on all over the world China, Saudi & loads of other places.
Zinchenko homeland has been bombed, invaded & is at war, totally different gravy.

People can’t selectively choose when to involve politics within the game. The same with the footballing bodies. I remember Celtic fans got fined a few years back by UEFA for showing their support of Palestine with flags in a CL game but the same is not applied in other scenarios

What other scenarios?

Payers were not allowed to wear pride armbands in the last World cup & many fans had support for pro human rights clothing confiscated before entering stadiums.
So perhaps it is

 

[2Smokeyy]

What other scenarios?

Payers were not allowed to wear pride armbands in the last World cup & many fans had support for pro human rights clothing confiscated before entering stadiums.
So perhaps it is

Not politics related but the double standards with dishing out bans for players betting but allowing betting companies to sponsor teams is mind boggling.

 

[Blankety Blank]

Not politics related but the double standards with dishing out bans for players betting but allowing betting companies to sponsor teams is mind boggling..

yeah It's certainly not a good look.
Ideally sponsorship by betting companies would be not allowed.

Thing is betting is a massive industry and money often talks in business.
Many clubs tend to accept the highest bidder.

Tbf players are allowed to gamble just not on football for obvious reasons.

if they do and get caught they will likely get suspended.

 

[Hunta]

Wake up Kevin, it’s all over.