Wenger & Pires: No new year signings

[reggiepaul]

I think your all losing the plot all together.

Why exactly do you want a striker?

At present we play 4-4-1-1 adapting to 4-5-1 later in the game. This works.

The reason we play this is to dominate a midfield and compliment as many attacking options up front because, we have Thierry Henry there.

Thierry Henry switches around and adapts effectively up front for any kind of attack to work.

Why a new striker? Any reason.

Most of you want one to get goals. Have any of you noticed how many goals we actually score with the set up we have in place. Fair enough you may fear Thierry Henry being injured for a long time but once that occurs I am sure the club has something in place to adapt and Wenger being Wenger will have something in place for that as well.

The point is, beyond what anyone thinks, with the players we have at Arsenal - no matter how spoilt you are and how crap you think our players are - they are scoring goals. Lots of them.

What you need is a player to supplement Henry. We can't replace Henry because at this point in time Henry plays well with our other players.

We talk of players like Kluivert, Smith, Eto'o and whoever else but all our players will need to adapt to them and more importantly - they will have to learn to play the Arsenal way. Have you seen how mediocre our oppositions play when they are not playing us? Do you think any player can just walk in to Arsenal and then we have a one way ticket to the Champions league final?

No - Most available players, if not all of them will have to adapt to the way Arsenal play.

So any thought, any at all, of wanting a new striker is naive, impulsive, alpha male love of goals (wannabe superiority from fans - have you seen how many goals we score?) and born of championship manager overload.

At present we have Kanu, Bergkamp, Wiltord (yes) and Aliadiere who can play with Henry. Pennant can also be another option if needed to play behind him to the right. The added advantage these players have over anyone we buy is experience playing with Arsenal.

If we can get Shevchenko, Raul or any super god player - yes. Otherwise shove it. Any cheap available player would be cheap and available for a reason.

Of course I would love a player to come along who could answer problems but more importantly the player we need is a versatile midfielder and we have a few of those at the club already. If anyone is coming forward he needs to do the business and play like Arsenal do - that is a battle in itself for any newcomer.

 

[Anonymous]

I think your all losing the plot all together.

Why exactly do you want a striker?

The Bolton game convinced me we need a striker.
Henry was too isolated, and also many times when we got in down the wings we had no one in the box. NO ONE! We need to have a player who other players will know will always be in the box.
We also need someone who can take the pressure of Henry. he is going through a bit of a tough patch right now, goal wise.

Also in the summer we face losing Kanu, Dennis and Wiltord, and Jeffers wont be back. If you dont think we need a striker, you are the one losing the plot :wink:

 

[reggiepaul]

Forget jeffers. It would be scary if he returns.

I think the Bolton game was really a lack of cover due to Clichy and Kolo going for runs without support.

I saw Kolo go on a run at Leicester and there was no support, then I wondered why that was. It hit me "why don't our players run up and support. The fact is that is not how Arsenal play. Kolo wanders.

On a conventional day for Arsenal Henry waits for delivery and whoevers with him up front, with our right and left midfielders chop and change to gain a goal scoring oppurtunity and score. In this scenario we always usually score and work off each other. We communicate and play better like this. Though the crux of all this is - this is how we play best.

Now when our wingbacks give up this routine and lose any support because of this - the whole system falls over.

Henry is a player who strives on delivery and also is the only player in the team who is in a position to push the opposition further and further upfield. Kolo and Yaya are in no position to do this.

Look at the logic :

When a wingback goes running to the other end of the field to push the opposition who is at left and right back? Simple answer - no one. Making a dangerous situation for all. No one can support our wingbacks on their run.

The only man able to push further up - be it by having and exploiting offside traps or dribbles or positioning is our attack because they don't compensate defence or midfield. In the modern game only our attack can do this and Henry is the best at it.

I think you can supplement Henry with well thought out midfielder but I aint listening to the garbage they talk on Sky Sports. They just use sound bites to justify airtime. Just because they are on TV makes them all the more wrong in my opinion because they have to be impulsive in their assessments. A manager is more focussed and has more of a hold on his team. He knows what is more right. It's easy being a critic.

So when I hear these guys on Sky Sports saying Henry and Van Nistelrooy needs a partner - I wonder with all their footballing knowledge what's going to the position that player replaces?

Arsenal are doing really well lately and the reality of our situation proves that.

They say Van Nistelrooy needs a partner and Henry does - but they don't. They need players who can supplement their game and that is what Fergie and Wenger are doing. In fact most teams do that these days.

Anyone who will come in will need to adapt to the way we play and by that way formula we are winning games. For this we will need to spend big. If anyone is to come in they will have to supplement the way our stars play. We can't start to live up to demands of other players. No new player can fit in and be absolutely perfect and for that we need a strong supplement. A versatile right sided player.

Wiltord may still be around.

Kanu may well be too.

Bergs - 65% chance he is going, lets say 70.

Who cares about Jeffers?

Don't panic. Other teams have it worse.

I think we need a player who can drop in to the hole like Pennant. People criticise Raniere for buying too many midfielders, I say, what a genius. The logic is anyone can poach because the aim of the game is to score goals. Managers have realised the game is won by creating chances and making sure a man is there. Midfield players are best at that.

We build teams from the midfield out.

Look at Arsenal.

 

[reggiepaul]

I appreciate 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 basically.

 

[reggiepaul]

THEN - we return to the notion players don't win games - teams do.

You build a team from the midfield out.

 

[lewdikris]

Reggie, you're makin something very simple very complex.

Arsenal need a new striker because at the moment we only have one who can be relied upon to score more than once every two months.

It's nothing more than that.

Bergy- brilliant. Doesn't score. 1 so far this season. Gilberto - GILBERTO - has scored more than him. Whatever he contributes, that's not good enough, and is the only real indication of the waning of his talents.

Wiltord - leaving in January. Mind elsewhere, never gonna live up to his potential. Over.

Kanu - too random, doesn't score, or look like scoring in the EPL. Plays well Champions league, but not a goal threat. Going to be missing for all of January and February. Not there - can't play.

Ali - doing real well in Carling Cup. Massive talent. Not taken his chances in the EPL yet.

This is the Heskey argument you're using. That a secondary striker doesn't need to score goals if the main striker and the rest of the team does.

And frankly. It's bollocks.

We've scored nine goals less at home than Man U have this season in the EPL. Nine. That's a lot.

Another good striker who scores goals rather than supports play, might have got 6 or 7. Scholes - even ****ing Forlan - has scored that many. Hasselbaink, Mutu, Crespo and Gudjonnsen have scored that many. Each. Bergy, Kanu, Ali and Wiltord haved scored 11 between them. 6 of them in the Carling Cup. None of them in Europe. It's not good enough. And no kind of argument can ignore that. Bobby and Freddie have scored more than that between them.

Players do win games. Why? Because some of them score goals. Our secondary forwards don't, and all of Bobby and Freddie's efforts can't cover that. Having a centre back who doesn't score doesn't matter. Having a central midfielder who doesn't score - like Paddy - doesn't matter. Having a centre forward who doesn't score - or four who don't score - ****ing does matter.

If you believe any different, we might as well sign Heskey now and have done with it.

 

[reggiepaul]

Yawn.

No, your the one making something simple, complex.

The end of our game is the fact we've scored 31 goals in the premier league and elsewhere as well.

The fact we score goals matters. Why? That's the way arsenal play. Accept it.

Your making matters complicated when you state we need someone when we are at the top of our game with a massive amount of talent coming through. You further make matters complicated when I personally insist we need someone to supplement Henry's game. Now, it doesn't matter who that is as long as his game is supplemented but we're doing damn good without that in place.

Why the fuss? Why all the drama? Aren't we spoilt enough.

Who cares if another good striker may have scored 6 or 7? What is that worth? Nothing. Woo hoo we have another good striker who may have scored 6 or 7. Basically your want for someone else ignores the fact we will lose a player in another position when we are in contention for four cups in our present position and no one else in England is.

Point being - we're doing very well thank you.

The idea of another striker and your reasons for it are born out of supposition, panic and inaccurate assessment.

Yes a right sided player who can supplement Henry's game would help a bundle BUT most teams play (Chelsea, United) 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 because the top teams know in England games are won from many chances and from a strong offensive midfield you win more and more games. We always put one player up front - not entirely to score goals, it does help though, but to push our game further and further into a goal scoring position. Offside traps, positioning etc etc.

I personally am more in favour of a right sided player in the hole who can supplement our game. I say Henry but supplement anyones game.

Your idea of other clubs players scoring goals matters not at all. So what? You think we should match them? The fact is we shouldn't because Manchester United play like they want to, Chelsea play like they want to and we play like we want to and with that we get results.

As for Heskey, the only time I used him was to say that people want a bulky player like Elephant Heskey. I don't know where you picked that up from.

Sorry if I didn't feel threatened when United have midfielders scoring 6 or 7 goals but I don't see the point in that when we have an Arsenal team to watch that practically pisses all over the way our opposition play. We play better, who cares who scores the goals. This is how Arsenal win the game and the world loves it and we get praise. Understand that.

Like someone said to me on Saturday " you guys must be spoilt watching this every week ".

Thank you.

 

[jc8gooner]

We are spoilt, Reggie, you are right, but that does not hide the fact that another striker is needed at Arsenal.

Your idea of other clubs players scoring goals matters not at all. So what? You think we should match them? The fact is we shouldn't because Manchester United play like they want to, Chelsea play like they want to and we play like we want to and with that we get results.

I don't think we need to emulate Man Utd's style of play at all, but if we are to win games like recent ones against Bolton, Leicester, and Fulham, another striker would be a huge step in the right direction. When Henry isn't scoring, which, believe it or not, does happen, we need another striker to take the burden off him and chip in with a few goals. Bergkamp of 5 years ago would have done this, but he is now not cpable of scoring the goals that are necessary. Pires is an excellent finisher, but as a midfielder, more is expected of him than goals.

Why the fuss? Why all the drama?

I think you'll find that many people on here love Arsenal FC; hence the fuss and drama over this issue.

 

[reggiepaul]

In summary - Arsenal play all over, Total football where opprutunity is born from versatility. Anyone can score because that's how we play. We're not grounded.

Our attackers are not old school victorian attackers. The attack push forward - from then on - once a goal scoring oppurtunity is there, it's anyones game.

That's the modern game. Simple as.

 

[jc8gooner]

In summary - Arsenal play all over, Total football where opprutunity is born from versatility. Anyone can score because that's how we play. We're not grounded.

No offence, reggie, but you do tend to speak in riddles!

At the moment, Arsenal are not playing this total football and we are nto scoring enough goals to win games in the Premiership. We are defending v.well, there is little doubt about that, but we are goign through somewhat of a slump in terms of premiership goals. The need for a striker however is not a knee-jerk reaction to this slump. If you look at our options, most are short term. Wiltord looks like he might leave, Kanu maybe also, Bergkamp may soon retire. Plus these players have not been at the top of their games for a while now. If we are to win big this season, we either need to gamble on these players returning to top, goalscoring form, or we need to invest in a new striker, if the money is available.

 

[reggiepaul]

I don't think we need to emulate Man Utd's style of play at all, but if we are to win games like recent ones against Bolton, Leicester, and Fulham, another striker would be a huge step in the right direction. When Henry isn't scoring, which, believe it or not, does happen, we need another striker to take the burden off him and chip in with a few goals. Bergkamp of 5 years ago would have done this, but he is now not cpable of scoring the goals that are necessary. Pires is an excellent finisher, but as a midfielder, more is expected of him than goals.

What burden exactly.

I love the club as well but I love it enough not to listen to bollox about it. I'm not in it for the soap opera and drama that the media surrounds it with or even in the indulgence to exaggerate events when it's not needed.

Thierry Henry's burden. Thierry Henry and Wenger said he is not close to full fitness and you haven't seen his best yet. On top of that he commends his players and their work rate. Your making it sound like just because Henry scores goals he is working harder. They all play a part in this. They all work hard.

I'm basically saying we don't need a striker ABSOLUTELY but a right sided player to supplement Henry's game. I'm more interested in acquiring a right sided midfield player who can get more forward but can also operate and supplement the rest of our team as well.

We need versatility not a one dimensional player.

In the end, don't worry. They'll sort it out. Panic when we're mid table, in the meantime don't create imaginings when the facts state something totally different.

 

[jc8gooner]

The burden of the fact that when he si not scoring, we are not winning enough of our Premiership games.

Your making it sound like just because Henry scores goals he is working harder.

Where did I give this impression-Please clarify.

 

[reggiepaul]

In summary - Arsenal play all over, Total football where opprutunity is born from versatility. Anyone can score because that's how we play. We're not grounded.

No offence, reggie, but you do tend to speak in riddles!

At the moment, Arsenal are not playing this total football and we are nto scoring enough goals to win games in the Premiership. We are defending v.well, there is little doubt about that, but we are goign through somewhat of a slump in terms of premiership goals. The need for a striker however is not a knee-jerk reaction to this slump. If you look at our options, most are short term. Wiltord looks like he might leave, Kanu maybe also, Bergkamp may soon retire. Plus these players have not been at the top of their games for a while now. If we are to win big this season, we either need to gamble on these players returning to top, goalscoring form, or we need to invest in a new striker, if the money is available.

Look at the facts. They tell a different story.

Like players not being at the top of their. Oh no, what shall we do BUT wait a minute we're basically a point from the top in the premiership and knocking top flight european teams out for the count?

Are you sure they are not at the top of their game? Are our players really that bad?

Wiltord may still be around - when he is gone he will be replaced. Why? because we run a football club, they are not idiots.

Repeat the same for Kanu and Bergkamp by replacing the word Wiltord.

When panic arises and we're mid table - make a fuss.

Otherwise, this is how Arsenal play. Don't be jealous if other teams play differently and get results in a different way. That's how those genius managers built the squad just like our genius did too.

Accept the fact he is doing a lot of good.

 

[lewdikris]

Why the fuss, why the drama?

Because we've drawn six games we could have won. All six of those games could have been ours. Because we didn't have an extra goalscorer available to prise an opening. Henry, Bobby, Freddie, Gilberto, have scored as many as possible - not because of some idealist 'it's anyone's game' argument, but because of playing out versions of well trained moves, and them working.

Bobby and Freddie score identical types of goals ALL THE TIME.

Henry scores the 'Henry goal' over and over.

Gilberto makes the same late burst every time he scores.

Our other strikers don't. Don't ignore this man. We're doing very well, but not as well as we could be. That's so obvious it's not true.

And that's why we're all arguing for a new striker.

BEcause he would make us better. In principle we're streets ahead of Man u and Chelsea, but we don't kill games off because we don't get the second goal easy enough. A second scoring striker would make that statistically more likely to happen.

No more, no less. You;re trying to make it sound like we're perfect. We're not.

And you misunderstood my Heskey point completely. People support Heskey because he contributes to team play, despite the fact he doesn't score. An honest assessment would say that a striker who doesnt score is like a hooker who doesn't **** - useless. Bergy and Kanu are gettting to be our infinitely more talented - but equally impotent - Heskey's.

I wasn't suggesting you thought Heskey should play for us. I wouldn't say that to my worst enemy ;D

 

[reggiepaul]

The burden of the fact that when he si not scoring, we are not winning enough of our Premiership games.

Your making it sound like just because Henry scores goals he is working harder.

Where did I give this impression-Please clarify.

So basically he is not burdened or is he?

What you said was "When Henry isn't scoring, which, believe it or not, does happen, we need another striker to take the burden off him and chip in with a few goals. "

So if the burden needs to be taken off him he is burdened isn't he? Or is he not.

You say when Henry isn't scoring - well we have had games where he hasn't scored and we have won BUT at the end of the day and forgive me for laughing but as long as we win who cares.

Your situations is based upon something that hasn't happened and also on the idea that without Henry we're nothing but that is not entirely true in football.

If we were to lose Henry the team will adapt. In football this happens, trust me. Teams pick themselves up. The fact is it hasn't happened. Now you confuse matters by saying he is burdened only if we don't score goals and he is the only scorer? Although we're still winning because this is basically Arsenal. Also games where Henry hasn't scored.

So I'm a tad confused as to what you mean as to " When Henry isn't scoring, which, believe it or not, does happen, we need another striker to take the burden off him and chip in with a few goals" - because Arsenal are a team who score with as many people as possible. This is how Arsenal play and it works.

 

[jc8gooner]

Your situations is based upon something that hasn't happened

Take a look at the results from our last 4 prem games. We have scored 3 goals, conceded 2 and won 1 game and drawn three. Henry has not scored in any of these games. You cannot say there is no correlation between Henry scoring and Arsenal winning!

as long as we win who cares.

I don't care who scores as long as we win, but if we are not winning games that we maybe should be winning, due to lack of goals, we must address the situation.

 

[reggiepaul]

Why the fuss, why the drama?

Because we've drawn six games we could have won. All six of those games could have been ours. Because we didn't have an extra goalscorer available to prise an opening. Henry, Bobby, Freddie, Gilberto, have scored as many as possible - not because of some idealist 'it's anyone's game' argument, but because of playing out versions of well trained moves, and them working.

Bobby and Freddie score identical types of goals ALL THE TIME.

Henry scores the 'Henry goal' over and over.

Gilberto makes the same late burst every time he scores.

Our other strikers don't. Don't ignore this man. We're doing very well, but not as well as we could be. That's so obvious it's not true.

And that's why we're all arguing for a new striker.

BEcause he would make us better. In principle we're streets ahead of Man u and Chelsea, but we don't kill games off because we don't get the second goal easy enough. A second scoring striker would make that statistically more likely to happen.

No more, no less. You;re trying to make it sound like we're perfect. We're not.

We're not perfect because there is no perfect in football and a striker wouldn't do that either. You would break up a great idea that Wenger has built up.

The logic of all this talk is built around building a team with what you have at your disposal and I am sure if the worst came to the worst Wenger would have a trick up his sleeve to compensate for it.

Why we didn't win those games may have been striker orientated or based upon many other conclusions.

We're not the first great team to draw games. Many other great teams have bad games as well. That doesn't immediately mean we should find a partner for Henry. Why?

This how Arsenal play and if you lose that player who Wenger puts behind Henry and put him to the side of Henry. I've actually lost all idea of what this is all about.

Oh yeah. Most players would take a while to fit in to the Arsenal game. Arsenal play a unique style of all round football. Anyone who is cheap and available is cheap and available for a reason. A lot of our game is played 4-4-1-1 basically games where we play our game from midfield out. So it doesn't matter who scores as long as we score.

That's why I go for a strong right sided player to compensate Henry's game. Although underneath it all I reckon we'll still have a great team no matter what for a while now.

 

[jc8gooner]

Don't be jealous if other teams play differently and get results in a different way.

You seem to be blind to the fact that, at the moment, we are not getting the results in the Premiership that we could be getting.

 

[reggiepaul]

Take a look at the results from our last 4 prem games. We have scored 3 goals, conceded 2 and won 1 game and drawn three. Henry has not scored in any of these games. You cannot say there is no correlation between Henry scoring and Arsenal winning!

No there isn't.

He didn't score at Birmingham (3-0) and neither at Blackburn.

We should have won those games but even in the past we have played games where we've said "we should have won that game" and we're still, well look at it. The point is a "striker" is not immediately the answer. Yeah strikers are fun and we need them but not always the answer. We have strikers in place and they play a part but a lot of major teams build their teams from midfields out and the midfield player is more of the "idol" these days because they make plays and stuff.

I don't care who scores as long as we win, but if we are not winning games that we maybe should be winning, due to lack of goals, we must address the situation.

We're winning games we're meant to win and we get surprised. It's history repeating. 100 years of football history. Get ready for more in the future.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Last year, we scored the most goals in the EPL.with the same players. And if i remember bergy, Kanu and to a lesser degree Wiltord..were very poor. No one can deny Bergy and Kanu have improved this year and we also have Aliadere. Yet we are *****in about needing strikers. We are the only team that gets most of ours goals from Left and Right Midfielders compared to the central midfielders. Its really because of our style of play.
Thats why Lunjberg will always go ahead of pennant. Our current outside midifielders blend in very well with our style of play.

Can our strikers do better, HELL YEAH!! But the urgency to which most of you push for this NEW STRIKER is way overblown. Not too long ago the case was about a NEW DEFENDER...so what happened to that? Its all forgotten now by you spoilt fans after Kolo stepped in and Cygan, Campbell stepped up their game.

What i agree 100% with reggiepaul is we have ABUNDANT TALENT at our disposal. We can correct any shortcomings we currently think we have with our current squad.