✍️ OFFICIAL Declan Rice

[BergMan]

Poor showing from him in that final. I have been underwhelmed whenever I watched Rice. He may be decent off the ball but that’s about it. Are we really paying over £90mil for a running around merchant?

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

De Jong can't control the midfield either, that's why he didn't replaced Busquets in the seasons before and was used more like Kessie was used this season, of course he didn't floriush in the half spaces like Pedri did too, so De Jong was below Busquets and Pedri in the hierarchy, sometimes even below Gavi!

Frenkie has the same profile as Fede actually, but I see Valverde as the best player, as he is more prolific going forward and has a better defensive awareness and the South American desire as well, as he will fight no matters what, De Jong was called more than once "pecho frio" by Barca fans though.

I will be OK with both actually, sure they are better than Rice at 8 position, but the Uruguayan has a better use to me.

Oh for sure, we’d be lucky to have either of them. It’s a dream though.

 

[lomekian]

Not a great game from Rice tonight, but its so hard to judge him in a team whose failings require him to be their perma safety net. Pacqueta (who was v good when he wasn't just complaining) and Bowen aside, West Ham really lack quality, and have both a squad and manager totally ill-suited to possession or dynamic football. We do know that what he is best at for West Ham, we have no-one in our squad with that skillset. He was poor tonight, but there were a handful times where he just took the ball off people like they were children, and then relieved pressure by running past two people carrying the ball.

Its not, at this stage, entirely clear how he would fit in, but if there's one thing we've learned with Arteta, its that he doesn't look to utilise people in the way one would first expect. Bar our centre backs and Ødegaard, the rest of our team has all been deployed in ways different to how they were before. Equally, we know Arteta has a longer term plan that he trying to take the team towards bit by bit - he's openly said the team wasn't ready for his next plan. So we only know what he's done, but none of us know what he's planning for next season. So all we can do with possible signings is judge them by what they are best at, and whether they are competent enough in other areas to have multiple possible uses.

Rice is a top 5 player in Europe at what he's best at, and decent at most other things as well. No idea what the plan is, but those traits are good enough for me.

 

[lomekian]

De Jong can't control the midfield either, that's why he didn't replaced Busquets in the seasons before and was used more like Kessie was used this season, of course he didn't floriush in the half spaces like Pedri did too, so De Jong was below Busquets and Pedri in the hierarchy, sometimes even below Gavi!

Frenkie has the same profile as Fede actually, but I see Valverde as the best player, as he is more prolific going forward and has a better defensive awareness and the South American desire as well, as he will fight no matters what, De Jong was called more than once "pecho frio" by Barca fans though.

I will be OK with both actually, sure they are better than Rice at 8 position, but the Uruguayan has a better use to me.

De Jong more subtle, more suitable for total football and positional rotation within phases of play, and better defensively in terms of positional awareness. Valverde more dynamic, more explosive and better going forward. Of the two I'd prefer Valverde for the EPL and the balance of our team, but lets be honest, we'd collectively wet ourselves with excitement if we signed either.

 

[lomekian]

Poor showing from him in that final. I have been underwhelmed whenever I watched Rice. He may be decent off the ball but that’s about it. Are we really paying over £90mil for a running around merchant?

As I say, it all depends what we want him for, and what Arteta thinks he can access as untapped potential giving the frankly crap teams he's played in. What we do know is that in terms of winning the ball back and funnelling opposition players in possession away from where they want to go, carrying from deep to create space, and playing long diagonal switches, he's statistically one of the best in the world. What we don't know is how good other areas of his game that he is rarely asked to do are, and whether he will fit into the football we play.

Caicedo seems a more obvious fit, but he isn't quite as standout at what he does as Rice is at what he does. Either adds ball winning and physicality that we haven't had in a LONG time, and both would be a nightmare for opposing midfielders.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Fabrizio going down the @A_G route

 

[DuBB]

De Jong more subtle, more suitable for total football and positional rotation within phases of play, and better defensively in terms of positional awareness. Valverde more dynamic, more explosive and better going forward. Of the two I'd prefer Valverde for the EPL and the balance of our team, but lets be honest, we'd collectively wet ourselves with excitement if we signed either.

Would we though?

Would we?

Because the past dictates that the early feelings would be shock, anticipation and excitement, and then as time passed they'd be picked apart to death until there was a large enough contingent of posters who become convinced that neither of them are the right player.

People who started off saying "get him regardless of price" would eventually start to penny pinch when the numbers come out.

People who love how they play would watch one subpar match and decide that this performance is the real him, the last 6 years were a mirage.

And by the time the deal looked close, a new, different name would be the guy. Yeah. HIM. Not De Jong or Valverde. Him McOutofourpricerange is the guy. Either Him or Johnny Diffrenté Profilé.

 

[HaffBR]

De Jong more subtle, more suitable for total football and positional rotation within phases of play, and better defensively in terms of positional awareness. Valverde more dynamic, more explosive and better going forward. Of the two I'd prefer Valverde for the EPL and the balance of our team, but lets be honest, we'd collectively wet ourselves with excitement if we signed either.

Imo

De Jong is a bit better at avoiding pressure and turning with the ball (but Valverde is still very good there and surely a improvement on Xhaka and Rice.. and De Jong isn't Xavi either), the uruguayan actually is better defensively and in terms of positional awareness. Both are elite passers and ball carriers tho, Valverde more direct and vertical like you said, De Jong more conservative.

Not sure of positional rotation and total football actually means in the context, but Valverde played by far in more positions and roles than De Jong and looked good in every one of them, DM, LCM, RCM, RW, RB while De Jong had a more defined role and he is suited more as B2B - like Valverde but a bit worse imo - or in the double pivot, couldn't play as Busquets as the main regista as he lacks the positional awareness and the build up leadership - he will be a good secundary playmaker tho - and couldn't flourish more advanced because he isn't as creative in the last third of the pitch as someone like Pedri - it is easier to see. Still fit better than Declan imo.

But like I said before, De Jong is out of Arsenal's reach even in terms of salary while Valverde isn't winning as much as De Jong and not sure what is Madrid's plans for him. 100m is still a big money you know.

 

[BergMan]

I’ve only been slagging off Rice because of the “Xhaka upgrade” narrative (really isn’t) that people have been spouting.

If we sign Rice and somehow keep Xhaka I will back Rice all the way. Xhaka and Rice has the potential to be a top midfield.

 

[Dokaka]

I'm so over trying to explain why this guy is legit.

Dude has taken my **** club to EL qualification in the league, a result of a genuine push for CL football, a EL semi-final and now has captained us to a European trophy.

I ****ing love this man and I hope he finds happiness wherever he goes next. He's brought me genuine joy for years now and I'll always be thankful for that.

 

[Rasmi]

As I say, it all depends what we want him for, and what Arteta thinks he can access as untapped potential giving the frankly crap teams he's played in. What we do know is that in terms of winning the ball back and funnelling opposition players in possession away from where they want to go, carrying from deep to create space, and playing long diagonal switches, he's statistically one of the best in the world. What we don't know is how good other areas of his game that he is rarely asked to do are, and whether he will fit into the football we play.

Caicedo seems a more obvious fit, but he isn't quite as standout at what he does as Rice is at what he does. Either adds ball winning and physicality that we haven't had in a LONG time, and both would be a nightmare for opposing midfielders.

Arteta isn’t this genius people paint him to be and I don’t know what untapped talent Rice has to unlock. He is a good player, nothing more nothing less. I have never seen a player rated 100 million so many people question his talent. Those who don’t see it are screaming where is it and those who claim to see it are saying it’s hidden, not everyone can see

Tonight they won the game. But he was average and they lost the midfield once again which is very common for West Ham.

 

[Goonnar]

Sorry I think it’s better for us if West Ham loses tomorrow as they would be out of any European football, meaning no chance to convince Rice to stay, more pressure for them to sell him as he would surely be frothing for CL football with us. The pressure will be much more to do a deal for him asap and count their coppers for the summer

Declan Rice remains coy as he says 'wait and see' on transfer decision

I hope though that his is just a statement not to spoil the party for the fans

 

[The_Playmaker]

I just want Rice to come and shut up a part of this forum to be honest. It's the Martinelli pizza boy nonsense. Nobody calls him a pizza boy now.

 

[G0D]

Declan Rice remains coy as he says 'wait and see' on transfer decision

I hope though that his is just a statement not to spoil the party for the fans

I mean what did anyone actually expect him to say? Reporters were asking him whilst still on the pitch after winning the trophy whether he'd stay another year after fans were singing "1 more year" to him... he wouldn't commit to anything other than saying he loves the club and we will see.

That's pretty much a "yes i'm off" because if he was going to be staying he'd say that to really excite the fans, instead he was just non-committal as to not put a downer on their moment.

 

[blrgooner]

I’m not sure he does. As a 6 in our system, you can’t be stiff like Rice or Xhaka, you need to be able to drop a shoulder and turn, create angles, disguise passes, progress the ball. Being stiff is one of the main reasons Xhaka was moved further forward.

And in Xhakas position, you need to be able to play in pockets, drift wide, get in the box, pick a pass. Not sold this profile fits Rice either.

Don`t agree with this idea of "stiffness" against ability to drop shoulder, turn etc. Based on that Rodri who I think is the best no6 in will not suit our "system". I think there are several players who suit our system and improve it who are not really dribblers. You don`t always need to dribble if you understand what is happening on the pitch and can take quick decisions.

 

[Idiotologue]

Good for him to leave as a captain who led his team to a European trophy, even if it's the Milk Cup of Europe.

 

[lomekian]

Would we though?

Would we?

Because the past dictates that the early feelings would be shock, anticipation and excitement, and then as time passed they'd be picked apart to death until there was a large enough contingent of posters who become convinced that neither of them are the right player.

People who started off saying "get him regardless of price" would eventually start to penny pinch when the numbers come out.

People who love how they play would watch one subpar match and decide that this performance is the real him, the last 6 years were a mirage.

And by the time the deal looked close, a new, different name would be the guy. Yeah. HIM. Not De Jong or Valverde. Him McOutofourpricerange is the guy. Either Him or Johnny Diffrenté Profilé.

I never said the excitement would last....

 

[lomekian]

Imo

De Jong is a bit better at avoiding pressure and turning with the ball (but Valverde is still very good there and surely a improvement on Xhaka and Rice.. and De Jong isn't Xavi either), the uruguayan actually is better defensively and in terms of positional awareness. Both are elite passers and ball carriers tho, Valverde more direct and vertical like you said, De Jong more conservative.

Not sure of positional rotation and total football actually means in the context, but Valverde played by far in more positions and roles than De Jong and looked good in every one of them, DM, LCM, RCM, RW, RB while De Jong had a more defined role and he is suited more as B2B - like Valverde but a bit worse imo - or in the double pivot, couldn't play as Busquets as the main regista as he lacks the positional awareness and the build up leadership - he will be a good secundary playmaker tho - and couldn't flourish more advanced because he isn't as creative in the last third of the pitch as someone like Pedri - it is easier to see. Still fit better than Declan imo.

But like I said before, De Jong is out of Arsenal's reach even in terms of salary while Valverde isn't winning as much as De Jong and not sure what is Madrid's plans for him. 100m is still a big money you know.

Perhaps a question of semantics.

I'd say Valverde is better at some defensive actions and De Jong better at others, but De Jong for Ajax was so positionally smart he often played DC, DM, LCM & RCM & ACM all at the same time within game. Indeed his utilisation at Barca is a perfect illustration of how they are rather less Cruyff's children than they claim. Lets not dismiss the player due to the hierarchical inflexibility of his employers, and the fact most of his team-mates can't do in game positional rotation. That said, I'd still prefer Valverde for where we are.

As you say its academic. Neither will be joining us any time soon.

 

[MikelHadADream]

The majority of people on this forum are in favour of Rice. Internet football forums are literally designed for discussion and different opinions so full respect to the people that don’t rate him as highly as others…

 

[field442]