✍️ OFFICIAL Joe Willock (Out)

[AberGooner]

I agree but at the same time would Willock want to come back and be on the bench? If we bring Neves in Willock is benched, same if we bring Bissouma in. I think there's a chance we could bring Neves & Bissouma in, if thats the case then Willock would hardly get any mins at all. I agree what you say about Ceballos & Elneny though, I would rather have kept Willock here and played him next to Partey when Xhaka was LB.

I personally think he's more than earned the opportunity to be in the starting line-up for the new season. I'd have no problem playing him next to Partey but I realise there's a really slim chance of that happening. I like Bissouma for example but I'm not convinced any of the names we're being linked with are any better than Willock, not forgetting he's still only 21. I mean there's a reason he's being valued at 30m after only a few months on loan.

If your Willock you've got to be thinking about how loved he is already at Newcastle with a manager who believes in him and confidence sky high, why wouldn't he want to take that chance? He keeps up that level and in 1 to 1.5 years he could be joining a top 4 side.

 

[kash2]

would rather sell you and Xhaka to Roma asap.

cheap shot.. whoever made you a mod... forum is gone.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Still think he'll be here for pre-season after that we'll sort his future.

 

[kash2]

Agree but he is not elite talent so he can work at any system. Saka is elite talent Willock is not.

what is this frikking system anyway that got us 8th and out of europe and the laughingstock in a europa semifinal with a deadbeat crook director and crackpot rookie manager. screw this system. bollocks to this system. IT IS NOT AN ELITE SYSTEM

 

[MikelHadADream]

We need to add goals to the squad, not take them away. Selling Willock to fund someone like Ruben Neves just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[kash2]

basically what people are saying is that if we get him back to Arsenal, the crazy idiot manager will screw him up his development so bad, that his value will plummet. So lets quickly sell before steve bruce effect wears off.

state of the club ffs

 

[Scottish_Gooner.]

He has had chances here and he hasn't shown enough for me. Whether that was due to the wrong formation or in the wrong position, who knows. Some players just excel at a certain club. Newcastle may be the club for him.

I just can't see him coming back and continuing that form he had up there. If a decent bid comes in, I would sell.

 

[MikelHadADream]

He has had chances here and he hasn't shown enough for me. Whether that was due to the wrong formation or in the wrong position, who knows. Some players just excel at a certain club. Newcastle may be the club for him.

I just can't see him coming back and continuing that form he had up there. If a decent bid comes in, I would sell.

He never looked comfortable playing in the league, but that's understandable given he's a young player. After the success of his loan spell you have to give him a proper chance here.

Athletic goal scoring midfield players are a dime a dozen, and it happens we severely lack both of those things in our team.

 

[Beksl]

Willock doesn't fit into our system but Elneny does. Mari and Holding can start in our system but Saliba just can't get the hang of it. Pepe was barely starting until the last couple of months because he wasn't suiting the system. Maybe just maybe the system IS the problem, it's utter **** and it's incredibly restrictive. I promise you any half decent manager gets a lot out of Willock. If Bruce can get 7 goals from 7 games and a play of the month award out of Willock, I'm sure he could something here. But no, because he's not able to fit into our galaxy brain back to back 8th place finishing system we must sell him.

Why do you keep mentioning Elneny, they're not even playing the same position/role?

We're selling an asset that less than 6 months ago we would bite at 8m for it if someone would throw them our way.

It's good piece of business from our end.

 

[dka1]

I want Willock to stay, but do I trust Arteta to get the most out of him? Not really.

Then again Arteta seems to favour the bland and boring variety of work horse so it's not like I'm jumping for joy for a prospective replacement he'd bring in.

For example "eh" is the perfect response to the Ruben Neves links. Surely just putting in the time and actual fooking effort to develop a guy that could potentially end up being dynamic and will bag goals is more worth it?

 

[Bloodbather]

I'd keep Willock and treat him as Partey's backup and occasional starter. His use does depend on the type of player(s) we bring into the midfield, but he should be kept in the squad in any scenario.

 

[Alexs]

Any sort of competent manager has Willock now in our squad and is not buying Neves. So we'll sell Willock and buy Neves.

 

[Big Poppa]

He has had chances here and he hasn't shown enough for me. Whether that was due to the wrong formation or in the wrong position, who knows. Some players just excel at a certain club. Newcastle may be the club for him.

I just can't see him coming back and continuing that form he had up there. If a decent bid comes in, I would sell.

In the same way interns have chances to prove they can be a CEO.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

You guys are really ignoring how awkward of a squad fit Willock is.

As I said in his thread:

Sell high. He's not someone who's going to be useful in smaller spaces against the low block we will play against in many games. He's a perfect midfielder for a lower half of the table side or a counter-attacking side. We are neither. As the article correctly suggests he's not effective as a 10 nor can he operate in a pivot.

The question is: will we be a better team with a 4-3-3 and him as the highest central midfielder or in a 4-2-3-1 with a proper 10 like Ødegaard? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

Sell high, we need to use our resources intelligently for once. Not another AMN debacle when we should've sold high on an en vogue footballer with significant limitations, only to see him lose value.

Do you guys really see a 4-3-3 with him as the highest midfielder in the 3 being the solution for us? I don't. So you're basically risking playing him in a pivot, instead of selling a valuable asset. Given his weaknesses in the construction of play / playing out from the back I simply cannot see a pivot that is going to work with him. You'd have to basically have an absolutely brilliant 5 next to him-- someone who is absolutely stellar in the build-up / receiving from defence (the truest of DLPs, basically) to cover the fact Willock has to be hidden in the construction phase, but also with legs and and athleticism and fantastic defensive skills to cover for the fact that Willock needs to have the freedom to get forward into the box to be of use. I am not sure I can think of a player in the history of football who fits these requirements...not even Xabi Alonso worked without a partner like Busquets / Khedira / Schweinsteiger who helped him more in these phases.

So the only real option is him in a 4-3-3. And there the question has to be asked, do you view us having more success with Willock as the highest of 3 midfielders, or Ødegaard. As I say, imagining us against low blocks with Willock in this scenario, I don't think it's particularly close.

I really don't think people are thinking through the Willock situation too much in real, realistic terms. In our financial situation we need to both sell high as well as buy if we are to build an interesting project. Like AMN last summer, I don't think you get much clearer cases of sell high than Willock this.

The only realistic situation I can think of is to go with a 4-3-3 with ESR and Willock as the 8s. But given Willock's deficiencies in the build-up phase this would require a) ESR to really improve in this phase / in distribution, and drop deeper than Willock in possession b) probably a better natural distributor than Thomas at the base of that midfield, and we saw how our experiments with a 4-3-3 with Thomas at the base worked last season...

So basically you'd need to restructure the team greatly (probably sell Thomas, look for a different profile in his position--and who? If it's Neves, for example, do ESR and Willock offer enough defensively to supplement him?) to accomodate Willock, to make it all viable. It's much easier to sell high and look for players who are better fits. I'm afraid that players with significant technical limitations / players that need to be hidden in construction phase just don't have a role to play in a starting XI in a top team, unless they are an absolute freak of a ball-winner like Kanté (he's really the only exception). I love academy products as much or more than anyone but we have to be a bit realistic about what it takes to get to a high level team. There isn't a place for an 8 with Willock's limitations in a top club's XI in modern football, especially when well-rounded players like Camavinga, de Jong, Bellingham, Gravenberch, and Ilaix are consistently coming off the production line.

 

[Rasmi]

Any sort of competent manager has Willock now in our squad and is not buying Neves. So we'll sell Willock and buy Neves.

Completely different type of player. I would sell willock without any hesitation. Just as I would sell AMN last season but fan pressure after ending the season well swayed the club and they won’t even get half of same fee now

 

[Alexs]

I agree with both posts above but I disagree with the solution. I don't think Arsenal can be successful with Artetaball unless we spend at least the £250m war chest we don't have. I don't want Man City lite and 8th place with drab football. With the players we have and our actual war chest we'd be far better as a counter-attacking team.

Sadly, I know it's not happening.

Also, I think it's a bit early to be definitive on Willock's limitations since he's 21 and has hardly been given a run here.

 

[Ash10]

would rather sell you and Xhaka to Roma asap.

We'd have to pay Roma for that deal to happen

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Also, I think it's a bit early to be definitive on Willock's limitations since he's 21 and has hardly been given a run here.

Wrt to this, question for all those who rate Willock: would you take Ruben Loftus-Cheek?

They're two players who I see pretty strong similarities with. Both have not been seen as viable as anything but the highest 8 in their clubs (Arsenal, Newcastle, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Fulham). RLC is superior technically, too. Willock perhaps offsets that a bit by having more pace. RLC too had his moment of being en vogue when he was scoring a lot for Chelsea under Sarri...it has passed (as some of the xG data suggests that Willock's too, will likely pass).

Anyways, there are just too many more well-rounded, more complete CMs coming off the production line in world football for these players to find their place in top teams. Those players I mention above are the future of football. Azeez and Patino, too, players who can really be top all-rounders. Musah, if Valencia develop him centrally (hope they do, he's too talented not to--I'd sooner make Valencia an offer to buy him back and promise him first team minutes than I would give those minutes to Willock, for the record, he's someone who at least has the potential to be a top class 8).

I take your point Alexs about thinking a counter-attacking approach is a better way to get value for money and punch above our weight. I can't agree a) because I believe in club philosophy, and I would hate for the legacy Arsène built to be ruined (and no, Arsène's football was never purely counter-attacking, it was possession football that was fantastic in transitions and quite vertical) and b) I'm not even sure this is an effective way into the top four anymore, with how good the league is...Leicester has tried and failed with this approach the past two seasons.

 

[balthazar]

Feel like we've been here before with Martinez... sell the players who are not wanted and keep the players who are performing well.

seems almost like the opposite. Sell the players who are performing well, and keep the players who Arteta likes for some reason

 

[TinFish]

if we can get 30-40m for him get rid. He will be wasted at Arsenal under our crap manager.