Mykhailo Mudryk [Chelsea Bound]

[KrissKringle]

Winning trophies does not simply = being suited to teach youngsters things. What did Arteta win of importance before he got to the Arsenal dressing room, for example?

Are you serious?At Rangers he won the league, here he won 2 FA Cups as a player and as Pep's assistant he was involved in the team's winning of two PL titles, one FA cup and another two EFL cups.

I would say that he spent enough time with winners to know how to instill that mentality into our players along the way. Absolutely ridiculous to even ask this question.

I'm not talking about Hazard's terrible stint about the club. I'm talking about issues with his professionalism (diet and preparation) that have been recognised and corroborated.

What does that have to do with him teaching the young players about certain things? If he was such a bad apple like you're making him out to be then why is he still at Real after all these years? Think before you write stuff like this.

Fact: Rüdiger arrived this season. 99% of Vinicius and Rodrygo's evolution has occurred before the first few months of this season. Indeed, Vinicius is at a much lower level than he was last season.

I'm also presenting facts you are clearly unaware of. But of course it's me who's presenting the 'subjective opinions' and KrissKringle, meanwhile...

Another poor attempt from you to misunderstand what I mean. Just because he arrived in the summer doesn't mean he can't offer them advice based on his experience in England, where he won trophies.

By your skewed logic he has nothing of value to offer to Militao because he already won the CL with Real.

You're clearly not aware of the details of this incident nor what both players have said about it and that time afterwards.

A bit more humility and sticking to what one knows and understands, would be appreciated, especially if you are going to have a go at people for presenting 'subjective opinions' and not 'relying on facts', when that is precisely what you are doing, and precisely what the person you are accusing of doing that is not doing.

A bit of humility towards you? That's a laugh. You're trying extra hard to have a go at me by twisting my words to fit your narrative time and time again.

I only said that all those players have won trophies where they played and can teach the kids the ropes and you started to go down your usual mental gymnastics.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Are you serious?At Rangers he won the league, here he won 2 FA Cups as a player and as Pep's assistant he was involved in the team's winning of two PL titles, one FA cup and another two EFL cups.

I would say that he spent enough time with winners to know how to instill that mentality into our players along the way. Absolutely ridiculous to even ask this question.

I was talking about when he arrived to the Arsenal dressing room as a player. Hence 'of significance'.

Yes, I'm quite serious. I certainly do not think having won important trophies = being of use to younger players, and I think it's a rather self-evident statement, and that the opposite, the one you're making, is the rather mad one.

I don't consider Xhaka to have won anything significant in his career and I think he is of the most use of anyone in our dressing room to younger players. There's a ton of other examples I could use. Valerón with Las Palmas being one I am familiar with. Indeed, I certainly consider Ødegaard a better influence on a young player than Hazard despite a) being a young player himself and b) having not won anything. I think you'll struggle to find anyone in football who doesn't agree with that point.

The rest I am not going to respond to because I can see someone talking with authority about things they don't know much about who is angry and looking for a fight. We can put each other on ignore.

 

[KrissKringle]

We can put each other on ignore.

Absolutely! Can't wait to not see anymore of your nonsensical wall of texts here.

 

[Rasmi]

Woow that escalated rather quickly

 

[KrissKringle]

Woow that escalated rather quickly

Nah, there's bad blood between us from before. It was the obvious resolution.

 

[Goonger]

It’s more the general disrespect to his current club.

If he succeeds here he’ll start doing the same for Real/Barca. Which I guess isn’t much of an issue provided we get paid this time.

I'm not sure you can equate it up like that. He has the chance to leave a country that is at war, a club that is playing its domestic games behind closed doors and it's Champions League games in another country, and he has a legit chance to leave all that behind, and perhaps take some of his family with him, to play in the richest and most prestigious league in the world alongside his countryman. Its not the same jump from here.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Nah, there's bad blood between us from before. It was the obvious resolution.

No bad blood from my side, indeed, I didn't even realise with what poster I was dealing with in the first response, until I saw the second response and identified it.

The mentions of Hazard and Rüdiger were quite strange for the reasons I gave (Mykhailo Mudryk), and you got defensive, and proceeded to double down talking about things you clearly shouldn't be talking about with such authority, spouting uninformed opinions with no basis and accusing others of doing just that. Like I said, a bit of humility, and willingness to accept counter-arguments and contradicting evidence without getting defensive is needed.

Anyways, the relevant argument to this thread is the one linked there^, and indeed, I don't think there's a very strong argument to be made at all for suggesting that there is a better environment for the development of a talent of Mudryk's age at Madrid than there is at Arsenal. Those familiar with Madrid and the dynamics at the club (like, say, madrileños who live less than a km from the Bernabéu and know people close to the club, and are soaked in the Madrid media every day whether they like it or not...) will tell you there are a lot of difficult things about developing a young player at Madrid, and that it is rather the exception than the norm.

@drippin you're right, he did have a year left on his contract, just looked it up in our media too to confirm it. Just shows, consensus in certain media can be quite misleading, indeed, the consensus in the media and 90%+ of madridistas was that Vinicius was a poor buy (or we can go into Benzema here... , all the times the consensus was that he should be sold or that Morata should be played over him ).

Anyways that also applies in the other sense, though, to you using him as an example of value to weight against Mudryk's case, as that's another unequal factor to consider.

 

[Rasmi]

Yeah I’m not buying most experienced players has anything to do with young players development. It’s actually more common they see them as threat and if anything make their lives harder

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Yeah I’m not buying most experienced players has anything to do with young players development. It’s actually more common they see them as threat and if anything make their lives harder

It all really depends. The most important thing is the overall dressing room atmosphere, and that there's at least some mix of personalities, ages, backgrounds, and experience level, IMO. We can say that about both Madrid and Arsenal with some certainty.

What Madrid has that we don't have is a far more brutal mediatic pressure, fan pressure and level of exigency (we might consider our fans to be fickle and exigent, but we're talking about a 7 versus a 10 on the scale), and expectation level and pressure level. We also have more of a culture of developing young players and showing patience with them, another gift of Monsieur Wenger's to us.

Ødegaard made it here under this current regime and not at Madrid under that current regime, so it's another reason why that's a rather strange assertion to make, that a player will have a better chance of developing there, given that recent precedent.

 

[Trilly]

For me speed and acceleration are always important for attackers especially.

The problem is that with this little experience, and no good proof of him being good against busses (Ukrainian league is never good proof even if you find some evidence there), transfer fees over 60 million carry humongous risk.

Little experience also means there is no proof if he is injury-prone or not when he plays a lot more per season.

That is true and the lack of experience and the league he’s from worry me, I’d prefer Zaha but don’t see that happening so here we are.

I don’t really care what the club think he’s worth, I stopped caring about our budget now that the Kroenke’s seem to back Arteta. We’re one of the biggest spenders in Europe last time I checked.

 

[Trilly]

I was patiently waiting for the lead up to that word. Man should have just mumbled like certain ladies do at the club.

Bro that’s a guaranteed apology tweet/post the moment he touches the prem. You don’t get away with that anymore

 

[Trilly]

You're clearly not aware of the details of this incident nor what both players have said about it and that time afterwards.

Expand please all I’ve seen is the clip.

 

[Trilly]

Woow that escalated rather quickly

Is your hate for Arteta still deeper than football btw?

I’m okay with him now.

 

[OnlyOne]

Bro that’s a guaranteed apology tweet/post the moment he touches the prem. You don’t get away with that anymore

I haven't watched the video but am I allowed to say the word?

 

[Trilly]

I haven't watched the video but am I allowed to say the word?

**** off

 

[OnlyOne]

**** off

 

[Trilly]

Man where do you get these from

 

[Rasmi]

Is your hate for Arteta still deeper than football btw?

I’m okay with him now.

He”s still annoying as hell. He need to stay in his technical area

 

[REWB]

This guy is obviously going to be world class, that much is clear, the talent is there to see, just a few tweaks and experience and he's there already.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Expand please all I’ve seen is the clip.

Benzema didn't even apologise for the comments at first, publicly (internally it was reported that he did), he basically said yeah, look, Vinicius is not on the same wavelength as us and it's hard to combine with him (softening a bit the 'he's playing against us' stance, and telling Mendy not to pass him the ball ).

Later when Vini broke out and Benzema and he started to show a really nice chemistry it was brought up over and over again, and Benzema continued to soften his stance, without really apologising or saying that he was wrong to say that, just saying that Vini had gotten better, basically, and also recognising that that wasn't just a one-time thing, that he was frustrated with Vini and struggled to play with him during that time, and the difficulties the Madrid environment has traditionally presented in this respect.

Here's what he said last April:

"No le he enseñado a jugar al fútbol. Lo que he hecho ha sido cambiarle las ideas. Antes tenía la idea de desbordar y luego 'ya se verá'. Ahora se desmarca sabiendo si va a marcar, centrar o ir al interior. (...) Es el mismo que la pasada temporada. La única diferencia es que ahora toma las buenas decisiones. Reflexiona. Eso es lo que le he enseñado",

I haven't taught him how to play football. The only thing I've done is change his ideas. Before his way was to beat people and then 'see what happens'. Now he makes a movement off his defender knowing whether he's going to try to score, cross, or cut inside. He's the same guy as last season. The only difference is now he makes good decisions. He thinks. That's what I've taught him.

Look, no one is saying Benzema hasn't been a good influence on Vini (although he's obviously giving himself too much credit there above ) on the whole or that that kind of exigency and level of footballer around you can't help a player. But it's not always linear, and it depends on a whole lot of factors (if Madrid could've got Mbappé that summer, and did, for example, Vinicius' career at Madrid was over before he breaks out, and Benzema is seen as nothing but a negative for his career; if Rodrygo had been fit during certain moments and had broken out on his favoured left...in short, the story could've gone a lot of different ways if the circumstances and order of events didn't come together as they did), and it just seemed weird to mention Benzema there given that context (not as weird as Hazard or Rüdiger, which is why I just mentioned Beni as an after-thought), or how long it took for that Vinicius break out to occur (compare to Saka who started at the top level at a similar age), and feels even weirder to suggest that on the whole there's a better environment to develop a young player of Mudryk's age than at Arsenal right now, given what we've seen with basically all of our players of that age at Arsenal under this regime, and the difficulties that present the Madrid environment in this respect.

Basically I'll refer to my post above re: the dressing room stuff (Mykhailo Mudryk).